00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Tyler Jones and you're listening to the Element podcast. What's happened in on On with people. We are sitting in an adjoining much better house than the mouse house. I'm glad to be over here in podcasting in this room. Man. It's uh, it's just a touch less musky than the mouse house. It is. It is a little bit less musk involved in here, but there's a little bit more well I would say more mess but the mouse house is pretty messy right now too, so you know it's just messy old mouse house, right. Sorry, My house is a spider house right now. We had the working man come over and spray and uh, he sprays around the outside and everywhere when he goes that, like Spider's just coming inside. I don't understand. Sneaky spots. I don't get it, sneaky spots. Uh. We have an awesome guest who has been on the podcast at least twice that I know of. We did, I know, we did one kind of long episode with them in the very beginning, like episode four. I think this is like our first guest with Faulsberg from the TRCP Theodore Roosebult Conservation partnership. He was like, are one of our first guests. He's also just he's been there, done that, and so like knowing that, I was super intimidated. I remember we had a much different, more basic set up podcasting wise, and we had never done an actual phone interview. We actually just came off of a failed phone interview like the week before. Yeah, so I was literally just on the edge of my seat the whole time. I don't think I listened to a word Witch said that that podcast. But then he came on and talked about he did a big buck breakdown because he shot a giant up in like the place that johnts don't exist in the Northeast, you know. And um, and now he's back. And what is good ab out this episode that you guys are going to enjoy as opposed to other conservation media a lot of times, is that this is all about positivity. That's right, good things, good things, dude, that's your that's your thing, man, It's optimism. And I knew you would eat this up. Now I love it. So we're going to talk about all the good things that are going on in North America right now. And there are a lot of them. So I think you guys are gonna really enjoy this episode. But in the meantime, before we get to that, you well, we and you uh is never mind, I'm not gonna so we have been doing uh our own thing likely pretty much, but we did go squirrel hunting. Uh. I don't know if we even talked about some the podcasts as we've been so irregular. It's been a it's been a lot of work in twenty nineteen for us man. Yes, it has. My mind has been more just on the labor front, and you've been holding it down on the element side of things a lot. But just a lot of things happened at the end of beginning tween n teen that it's just kind of threw us into a world we end of sorts. But we did get to go have some fun together two weeks ago, yeah, and it was fun, Like, oh my gosh. It was like sometimes when we go out and we were like, Okay, we gotta go hunt some pub for some deer. And it's gonna be a you know, literally like you know, I hate to say this, but it's gonna be kind of a drag probably, you know, like we're not gonna see any deer, and then we're when you get your wig out and stuff. And then and then we're gonna have to like mid day, we're gonna have to come in, rush a lunch real quick, do an interview at this time with somebody for the podcast, wrap it up, edit it since spit it out before the afternoon hunting. And it's a lot of work. And when we're not hunting together, so like I e. Now during non hunting season, it's like getting podcast done can be uh a lot of work. It's like it's just we we pretty much do what probably a lot of you listeners do when we work, you know a lot of hours. So um, getting together has been a chore, but we have done it. And we got to, uh we got to do the Squirrel thing a couple weeks back, and like I said, I don't even remember if we've talked about this much, but we're gonna be releasing the film on it. I'm hoping, uh this coming Tuesday, which is gonna be the nineteenth I believe. And uh, it was pretty awesome, Like it was, it was just kind of like slow. It was a real slow morning and then it like worked into the afternoon where it started picking up and then by like the Golden Hour, it was just crazy, like squirrels were just flying everywhere, just as a tease. I'm pretty sure shot four squirrels in less than a minute without without when we're taking it was unreal. You just gonna have to watch the footage to see. I don't know how well it was captured. I haven't got to see this yet, but oh, it's pretty good. Yeah. I didn't do a great job, but you you did, uh capturing your own shots? Did really capture your own shots? Yeah? It has a camera on tripod or something. Just barrel gunn barrel? What's right? Go on? It so cool? It was. It's cool though, like they're close enough where you can see most of them see and uh, man, it was fun. I shot a new species of something. You have to watch to find out. I was super super excited about. Anyway, that was a lot of fun. That video will be coming out soon in the meantime. If you haven't watched the meat Buck film, it is titled Texas Public Land Buck and it's on YouTube. Um it is the video of Casey's meat Buck, the infamous, the infamous meat Buck. You got raged, man, people apparently don't like the idea that like you shoot animals. For me, it's kind of really weird, like we still live in such a contrast and we didn't even plan on talking about this too much, but like hunters, I'm gonna criticize us, Okay, criticize us as hunters. We like to like talk about how like, oh, we're all in this for the organic meat that we obtained for a family and all this stuff. But then when you say, uh, that you shot that deer for that purpose, people freak out because they're like, oh, all dear matter, dude, it's not just about that. Was like yeah, and it's like we literally participate in the industry that is almost completely funded by big antlers, like I would say nine point nine nine percent. There might be like a dB S mention of a person who really enjoys watching those and small bucks get shot, right, and that's what they really like. But otherwise it's all funny about antlers. So when you shoot something not because the antlers, people get really weirded out of it. I mean, I like, in your interview on this, you talk about how you're like, this isn't the buck that I would have shot on October three. You know what I mean, And it's it's true. Man, like you. It's not because you don't care about meat at that point in the season, but like you value the meat enough that at the end of the season you're willing to let go of this challenge standards that challenge you to obtain the meeting. I mean, it's it's it's your way out these things in your mind of like necessities versus like desires. Right, it was more of a necessity for me to shoot that deer. I still wanted to shoot it, don't get me wrong, but I was looking at my freezer um and said, Okay, I need this much for us to make it until next deer season, or next elk season, or whatever it might be. I'm glad you did. Yeah, I've already eaten part of the backstrap off that I still have hold in the in the freezer. Any touched. I gotta I gotta solid third. I'm gonna have to get them cutting. I didn't realize what the the Texas deer are gonna have to be cut into halves for my family. You said thirds, and I was, I mean thirds work on Midwest dear for me. Yeah, Well, but also, my kids are getting bigger to talking horses and ponies at that point. It's right, that's right. So anyway, you u you were just managing the herd as far as I'm concerned, and you're gonna be managing the herd on a new property that we've been talking about. We've been alluding too lately. Um, and you're you've been doing a lot of work there, but recently you've done some kind of sticky things. They're I have. We're not talking about Greenbrier. They've been trying to be real, if you know what I'm saying. Uh, Sonny, So um, uh, I did something that's really not wat tail related. But wait wait wait, wait, way down the chain it is, and this is why it's cool. Okay. So this property that me and my wife purchased is gonna be our homestead. We're gonna build there. Uh, We're gonna hunt there. I'm gonna raise your kids there and hopefully be able to like one of my big goals is to be able to give my kids a great outdoor education at all times. Like that's something I'm super passionate about. Right, So, uh, this property is going to be in my dreams and I'm hope to make that a reality, like a really cool outdoor classroom. Okay, it's gonna take some cleaning up and some things to do beforehand. This past weekend, we went out to actually push down this old rotten house that was on the place so that we can build our new place. Uh. Well, we went to pushing on this place and all of a sudden, bees went everywhere, and we're like, oh man, I gotta watch out for that spot. And then it never clicked me that I should get those bees because it just so happens. I had a bee box I'd purchased to put bees on the property at one point in time. So I'm glad. Okay, I'm glad you clarified. I was saying be box no. Um. But anyways, uh yeah, So ends up we couldn't get the house pushed down because the tractor wasn't big enough. I had to resort to a dozer, which was a whole another story. Um. But they gave me an opportunity to go borrow a b suit from our friends Slate Daniel who's on the podcast last week. UM, and borrowed his b suit, went out smoked the bees by myself, not like I didn't like smoke them, but like I, you get a little smoker and you ump it up, you know, and sending a little smoke in there. Actually, what that does is it um uh simulates a forest fire. That's why you do that. It's not to like put the bees in the hibernation or anything. But when you do that, the bees go into honey collection mode. So they go gorge themselves on honey and they stop worrying about you getting into the hive. And I watched it happen because they were on the outside of it, and I went with the smoke and they went way up to the honeycomb. Yeah, and I just started pulling it out and putting it in my bee a box. I got all you started pulling the coma comb out, yeah, while the bees are on it, uh if you can, Yeah, and then you like you're smashing them all up in the honey and stuff. No, not too bad. I didn't really smash too much honey. Really, it came out pretty easy. I guess maybe sometimes it's more like stuck to the stuff it's on, but it was stuck to sheet rock in this old house, so it came out pretty simple, you know. Um, but most of the bees kind of all wadded up off the comb because they kept kind of running away from me. And then I just grabbed him and throw him in the in the box. But never got stung once. And the only time the bees even tried to sting was when I would grab them to put him in the box. Some bees would sting in my gloves. I can see him stinging, but otherwise, like, I think you could have walked right up there and grabbed a piece of that honeycomb and pulled it out and not get stung by be just like straight up thank you. Yeah. And maybe it was a smoke that helps with that, you know. I don't know, but it was. They're surprisingly docile. It's like maybe you got um, maybe you're a bee whisper. I might be I got the bee touch. But so long story short, I now have uh A be calling me, did you find the Queen? I don't know. People always like you gotta get the queen in this and that. Like I don't even talk to Sight about it. He talks about the queen all the time, Like is the queen any different than the rest of Yeah, it's just like the brain so like, well, I mean, but you can't see her brain. M you said the brain, She's like the brain, so right, but like, how do you know which one is? Like? Yeah, yeah you can. I thought they were just like a touch bigger where you can't really even tell what there's a million of them in there. Uh no, I think you could probably tell just in the videos I've watched. I'm not a B expert or anything expert. An expert might be one of these days, but so I think the queens like one and a half times the size when she has a really elongated abdomen, and she's gonna be a lot of her color. So um. Anyways, I didn't see her, but I went over today, which is twenty four hours after the collection. No bees in the original high location and a ton of bees still in my box doing be stuff. It's like working on the comb and stuff. So I think she's probably in there. I don't know for sure. I'm not gonna jinks. I don't believe it. Jenssin' nohing, but I'm pretty sure all as well. And I think I don't know this for sure. And if you're a B person, holler at me. Uh. My boy's slade has been super helpful, but it's always good to get a second second opinion. Um, I think that if you don't get the queen, it's not the end of the world. But it's so much better if you do. I think they can hatch another one, or there might be one on the way, you know, or whatever. So a little little princess peach in there. That's your Mario kar character. And yeah, I love racing the peach. I'm wor dude evil. Yeah, it's good. Bows. I used to do bows all the time. I don't like him. Yeah, that was the cool part of my land this week. Man, it was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed the be stuff more than I thought I would. And now I've got three quarters of a little bear over here full of honey from my own property, like so good. I might taste some here, and I'm gonna let you. I don't really have a medium for it, so you might just have to use the spoon scart in my mouth, powerless and style. Yea. So, um, are you gonna rob again this year? I don't know. I don't know how this works. Um. There's a bunch of honey in the in the box right now that I put in their form. You have to buy like all the tools and stuff to do it. No, man slade has like a like a crank like a bucket. You crank this thing and like squeezes the honey out and or like it doesn't throw the didn't squeeze honey out, throws it out like all on the side. Oh it's a centrifugere. Yeah. Yeah, so I don't know. I mean I did at Caveman Stall and just squished the comb in my hands and got that out and it looked pretty efficient. Like I don't think I lost much so unless uh well, I don't like to like chew the wax because it gets all of my teeth thrill bad. But I put in there and kind of it's really strange. You don't know this, but uh for those of you who may or may not have dabbled into tobacco in your lives, it is a lot like chewing tobaccup. Like you take that comb squishing around your mouth and put over the side and suck on it and you get the honey out of it. I don't really have anything cool and new going on with me. Uh, wit probably give us some cool things. There's a lot of cool things to say. I guarantee you. All right, let's get him on the phone then. Alright, so now on the line I have with Fosburg of the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. What's happening with not a lot tyler? How about you guys running around like chickens on their heads cut off? And guarantee you trying to get this thing ready? You know, it's uh, it's pretty much right after work and and uh, you know, we pretty much ran in the door and set this thing up and trouble shot everything. And now we're talking to you on on the podcast. So we're happy to be doing that right now. But it's great talking to you guys. I think having talk to since I saw you out our media summer this summer. That's right, Yeah, it's uh. And man, that was an awesome event. I appreciate you having us out for that because I think I caught my biggest trout on that trip. Uh you know, we went down to Yellowstone. I think, uh most of y'all or most everybody else kind of went on the madisone or something maybe Yeah, Madison is slow that day. Yeah. Yeah, But anyway, we're we're talking today, UM about conservation obviously, but the UM you know, conservation a lot of times, UM, when you talk about the issues surrounding it, you see kind of a bleak picture that's painted. And I think the intent is is you know, um well meaning it's to kind of to drive people to stay involved, to get others involved that aren't involved. But sometimes it just kind of makes me feel or somebody who might be I guess working towards these conservation issues, especially a young person. I think you've probably seen been around the block at a time or two and know that these things develop over. UM. You know, winds develop over years and years sometimes and so UM. But for me, you know, sometimes it just makes me feel like I'm fighting a losing battle. So UM, I want to kind of just promote um the winds that we've had in conservation lately, because I know there's a lot of things going on in North America and UM, I think hopefully this will be a great source of encouragement for people who who don't know where to start or would like to get involved. UM. So let's start where the Europeans began changing the landscape in the northeast. What's the big win there lately. Well let me let me just talk about your general you know, feces in with and uh, I mean, I mean, honestly, these are the good old days. I mean, you know, hunting and fishing and fishing, wildlife conservation is in great shape in this country. And you think about where it was, you know, back in THEO. Roosevelt's time. You know, a century ago, white tail deer were almost extinct, black bear buffalo. You know, there was a time when the duck stamp was passed in the nineteen thirties that there was a real fear that a bunch of the ducks pieces were in extinct. And today you know, we have you know, Sharpshooters and rock Creep Park in d C. Because there's so many deer we got, you know, elk at, you know, numbers we haven't seen you know in ages um, you know, and even with one of the predators and Ecosi is like world's going back, you know, So we these are the good old days. And the notion that you know, it's just glooma doom out there, which is what we know thrive on, is just not true. And yeah, we've got to make sure that we protect what it is that we've created here. I mean, the whole North American model of conservation. It's the best in the world. I mean, we have, you know, a true professional wildlife management system in this country, paid for by the folks who use it, the hunters and anglers. We have six d and forty million acres of federal public lands to go play on. We've got a bunch of state lands and other places to go out and enjoy. And uh, unlike Europe or England or you know some places that you know, if this is a sport for the common man, so you can get out there, doesn't matter how much money you make or what your socioeconomic status is. That you can get out and you can hunt, and you can fish, and you can enjoy this amazing bounty that we have because you know, people is all of us own the game and the fish in this country, and not just the into gentry. And it's what makes America cool. It's what drives the whole outdoor recreation economy. You know. And Roosevelt fell back in his time, this was the way that people could go out and test themselves and get in the back country you see nature experience. The things that he did that he credited with making a man and and we have that the same opportunities today and it's awesome. And you know, so let's just use that as an overall backdrop. But then we get into any individual place and yeah, there are threats, but they've been threats all along, and it's because our community has been engaged that would be able to push a lot of those back. Now, you talked about the Northeast and some good stories there, and you know, there are a lot of good stories in the Northeast. I mean, you know that is I think about just the landscape there. You know, the forests had really come back everywhere from you know, the Adderandeck of upstate New York up through Vermont, New Hampshire at one point. You know, all those areas have been largely clear cut for the timber industry. And when they created the Adirondack Park in the eighteen eighties, it wasn't because they wanted to know, sort of preserve special lands. It was because you know, all the fires, all the erosion, we're threatening the New York City and the Albany water supply systems, and so we have you know, much healthier forests today that we did a long time ago. Yeah, we have a lot of threats with blights and invasive species like the m al dashboard. But still we've got some really nice intact forest system that provide great hunting up there. So that's one thing and you think about, you know, one of the issues that we have to deal with a lot here in terms of federal policy is chronic wasting disease, which really threatens deer hunting around the country. But the Northeast is one place that's really gotten it right. You know. It's not in you know, Maine, Connecticut, Vermont, New Hampshire. It was in New York State, but they found it and they addressed it aggressively and they haven't found it back again. So it really provides at us and that if you can you know, identify the disease out there, you know, and wax some deer when it comes in, you can really keep it under control, or in New York's case, you actually get rid of it all together. So there's some really good stuff happening there that I think other states in the country growing in a lesson from so um that New York is the only state that's actually gotten rid of it once they found, Yeah, and they were they were fortunate. It had a very small outbreak in really one place and it was a captured facility. They killed the deer, they killed a bunch of other deer around there, and uh, you know, quarantine basical that area and then did a bunch of testing and it's just never come back. So you know, they were lucky they got that first deer um. That appears to be you know, sort of very isolated case, but it also sort of argues to the point that you could take it seriously, be aggressive when you find it. They would, uh, they'd have to knock out about half of our state if they quarantined the areas around fenced uh down here in Texas. No, I know, I mean, and that's you're not just Texas, I mean Wisconsin. He has had a big explosion in Pennsylvania lately. Um, you know, but you know, we're gonna stay like Illinois, which you know sort of got it too, but then it was pretty aggressive in dealing with it, and it stayed below one of the overall deer levels. And so if you if you do treat aggressively and you follow the science and you don't let the naysayers get in your way, then you can you can take care of it. You may never get rid of it like New York did because that was very isolated case, but you can keep it at a you know, way background level where it really doesn't have any implications that overall population or do people hunting. Yeah, exactly. And another positive guy that we know and was there this summer Brian right Free from the Quality Do Your Management Association. He always likes to say that I think it's ninety seven percent of counties and the unth that don't have cw D and all the while it is something to be aware of, it's not like it the apocalypse of deer at least yet, right, Yeah, I mean it can be if we're complacent about it, and if it gets everywhere. I mean in a place like Wisconsin is in for a world to hurt for a long time because you know, it just did not address it the way it should have. And it's so we're fifty prevalence of much of those counties, and there are a lot of the states like even Minnesota now is taking really seriously because they don't want to be like in Wisconsin, so they're you know, really clamping down on the captive deer farms. You know, they're being very aggressive about being what comes in and out of that state, and honestly, it's what we all need to be thinking about, even us hunters. You know, a lot of us blame the captive deer industry from moving around deer, and there clearly is a lot of blame there. But hey, if you and I go to a hunt in Wisconsin and throw a deer in the back of our truck and drive home, yeah, we're culpable to. So we've just got a as a hunting community recognized this is the new normal. We can't do things necessarily the way we've always done it before, for sure. So if we were to head head south of touch, the mid Atlantic is a place that I would really like to visit sometime that I'm not actually playing football or doing something where I can actually you know, go out and and visit because it just seems like this kind of isolated, uh, kind of under the radar area that's also really diverse. What's going on in that area right now? Yeah, I mean, it's it's definitely worth coming up here and checking it out. I Mean, d C is in the mid Atlantic area and It is an amazing you mean, I live right in d C. And I can get out and be fishing in five minutes from my house and uh, you know, get out in you know, deer hunt forty five minutes outside of town. You know, some of the best waterfowl hunting in the country is out on the Chesapeake Bay and the Eastern Shore. And the bay itself is really amazing. I mean, we have this big, shallow estuary which is the Chesapeake Bay. That is several big rivers that flow into it, including the Susquehanna, the Potomac, and it has been you know, sort of the lifebread of this region for a long time. And that's where all the you know, largely most of the stripe bast spawn um, you know, and it's you know, just an incredible resource. Now it got seriously trashed in about the last fifty years over harvest pollution coming from Pennsylvania, Upstate New York, Maryland, Virginia, all the other states that you know around the bay. But really that tide has turned and we started to see you know, better and better numbers coming out of the bay in terms of water quality, but also wild i species, crabs, oysters, right best. And what we don't want to do is, you know, sort of get complacent again and go back to where we were fifty years ago, and it was really a dying body of war. And there are some things like, you know, there's a weird little fish called the menhaden, I don't know, Yeah, yeah, so it's it's also called bunker. I've been, you know, Northeast is called Pogy and the Gulf and basically the only thing is good for is everything else eating it. And so it is truly that ace of the ecosystem. And back in the early nineteen hundreds, they're who are known as reduction you know, fisheries up and down the East Coast, and these you know, they would send boats out they scoop up the hayden and pers sayings and grind them up for oil, for fish food, for fertilizer, for pet food, you know, whatever it might be. And then finally I figured out that that was not sustainable. So every state in the East Coast except for Virginia dan you know, basically what they call reduction fishing, scooping them up and grinding into something else. But Virginia still has one plant called omega protein and Readville, Virginia that basically kills of the overall harvest of man hayden on the East Coast, and they have spotter planes and big ships to go out there. And it is by volume, the second largest fishery in the United States behind Alaska pollock. And if you like, get a filet of fish or something, that may well be in the last pollit. So and now these fish has been purchased by a Canadian company called Cook Industries, and Cook bought them because now they're grinding up these fish and sending them to Canada to feed pen raised Atlantic salmon, which is also totally unsustainable fishery. So we have, you know, one unsustainable fishery sustaining another unsustainable fishery, and we finally have a chance now to change the way that whole fishery is managed. In the governing body of all the states in the East Coast, called Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission is set to move from a single species model, which is basically how many men Hayden can you catch before you collapse stock, to how many men Hayden can you catch while still taking into the needs of the broader ecosystem. So what do the stripe mass need. Where do the weak fish need? Blue fish, the bald eagles, the whales that eat these They also filter feeders, so a lot of them breed or respawn in the Chesapeake Bay. So what they do is the swim around and basically filter the water. So there's a direct implication on water quality. The more you have, the better you're gonna do. But even with today's harvest, they estimate that about it's reduced the stripe bass population on the east coast of a Now that is really significantly. Stripe bass is by far the number one recreational species in this country in terms of economic impact. So we may have that change, and we may go to the system would actually recognizes the ecological value of these fish and not just how many we can kill before he claps him. Okay, so you just said something really big, and I want to make sure I'll understand what you said. You said that striped bass are the most economical Let me rephrase this. Rephrases they have the most economic impact as a recreational fishery anything out there. So anything out there, we're not saying, not saying just fish, but but animals too. So more than recreational fish, but more than salt. I'm sorry, I'm okay, but still okay, I'm glad you guys are there. Correct. No, No, I gotland and I forgot a few a few key qualifiers. No, I don't need to take a task or salt order recreational fish. So it's right, that's bigger than you know, salmon on the West coast, just bigger than redfish in the Gulf. Yeah, it is a huge And still that's very huge. It's that's that's incredible. That's so cool, and um, it's so strange to see that contrast of min Hayden because in the Texas golf we actually kind of have an issue with too many sometimes and it's because of fertilizers from what I understand, you know, and run off into a different situation there, which we might get into some of that later. But so up there, the min Hayden are actually a key component to cleaning the bay. Cleaning the bay. Yeah, so they cleaned the bay and they basically provide that base for everything else to eat. Where's the where would you consider the mid Atlantic stopping on the north and south end. Oh, I'd say it's New Jersey down through in North Carolina, gotcha. Yeah, that's I was kind of thinking. I was just making sure to clarify that. Cool. So if we keep driving south here on our road trip, we get to the Gulf States, which we happen to be one of those here in Texas, but maybe let's start kind of over in Florida on the East coast and um, because I know there's a huge and very important ecology over there. Yeah, I mean, and actually that's one of the h that has been a scary story in recent years. I mean, you probably saw all the stories about the you know, the red tide and the album blooms off the east and the West coast, and you know that was a huge problem because you know that impacted you know, not only just the you know, fishing industries on both coasts, which it did, but even if you were you know, the rental industry, who wants to go and run a condo on the beach if it's you know, stinking with you know, red i'd and dead fish and you can't hurt your lungs to breathe it. So and that that is really a direct result of the way they manage water in the state of Florida. So historically, you know, the central Florida, the lad Lake Okeechobee area. You know, when that would you know, the water from there drained south through the Everglades and then down into Florida Bay and east and west, and you know, going through that acted as a giant basically a sponge that you know, not only reduced flood flows but clean that waters went through. Now, in our wisdom, Corps of Engineers decided years ago that they were going to divert all those flows and send them east and west instead of south. So now there is not that filtering capacity that we used to have, and instead that water gets pumped out as fast as it can be, you know, to the east and the west, which causes these huge algal blooms. And so finally, as a way to really restore the Everglades, you know, the state of Florida basally committed to one point two billion dollars to build a whole new reservoir south of Lake Uncle Chobe that would catch that water, filter it and then send it south instead of east and west and really restoring those original flows to the Everglades. And then Congress in December pass something called the Water Resources Development Act, which basically committed two hundred million a year to do the same thing in federal funds to match those state funds. So all of a sudden, now we are on the fast track to everybody's restoration. Fast track is a relative term. You're so probably going to take a decade to get this built and to get that water flowing south. But we're further along there than we have been for my lifetime certainly. Yeah, that's awesome. So, um I understand that, Uh, there's a lot of politics involved with the Everyglade situation, and particularly we're talking about Big Sugar, right, and that that has a big impact on it. So what are the difficulties in like how has that overcome? When you start you can't just throw money at things, right, So, like how how do mitigate the situation with Big Sugar and then also with those landowners and stuff who live south of Lake Ochobi. Yeah, so a lot of the land that will become this new reservoir is being purchased from Big Sugar, and they've sort of squawked over time because they keep trying to drive up the price of what they get paid for acquisition in this area. Um So they're gonna get you know, they're gonna get their money one way or another. Um So, I think the politics have gotten a little bit easier in the state in recent years when they realized they have to do something and even if Big Sugar doesn't like it, they're going to get compensated. And uh, you know that is in the taxpayer's interest to even buy them out so that you know, basically the Everglades, you know, East and West Coast fisheries, everything else can get restored. Um So, I think the politics were a lot better now than they have been. But you're oxously right. The reason we're still talking about this we have been for thirty years is because of that sort of political politics of you know, do nothing versus you know, do everything. Now, he finally got in this compromise, and you know, Rix got what he was governor of Florida deserves credit because he helped push this through. You know, a guy named Joe Negron, who was the Senate leader and the Assembly down there was really a driving force behind it. But then also you know, not only just the Florida delegation in Congress, but really everybody else that recognized that, you know, the everglades are a national resource. They're not just a Florida resource. And you know, came to the table and gave the money that's going to be needed to fix that up. Cool. So what about the rest of the Gulf. What what kind of wins are we looking at in the in the remainder of the Gulf throughout this I mean, actually, you know, as much as the damage that the depot Rizon you know spill, did you know, a ton of money came into conservation after that, you know, close to twenty billion dollars. And so we have been really active. Our guy in Louisiana has been helping shepherd a bunch of projects down there to restore barrier islands, to recreate marshes too, you know, reconnect the sediment flows that come down the Mississippi. We have a huge problem in that Louisiana area because you know, we canalyze that river and put up big dikes all along the way. And so in the old days, when it would flood, flood naturally out over a broad area and that sediment would build land or keep land up there, when we diked it and changed that sediment flow, what we did was all of a sudden, there was nothing to replenish all those wetlands, so they began to sink, and Louisiana loses. I can't remember staggering amount of land every day through just subsidence. So finally, and now we have a process really because of the deeper horizon penalty moneys that you know, as you know, projects going on all the way from Texas over to Florida to basically rebuild that coastal ecosystem. And that's gonna be good for fishing wildlife, but it's also good for you know, the communities that live along there because when you have barrier islands, when you have wetlands, it protects those communities from the storm surges, from the hurricanes that come along. I'm gonna be going down actually this weekend to shoot some geese down in your state of Texas. Yeah. So I'm going down to something called the Sabine Ranch, which is over near Beaumont and it joins the McFadden National Walife Refuge. This is a really cool project that the Conservation Funds is done. They have purchased an old ranch there and help do some restoration work on it. But it's twelve thousand five acres is going to be donated to the U S fishal wal Ie Service, and that refuge was was going to really protect the largest fresh water marsh in the state of Texas. And a lot of that money to do that acquisition was paid for with some of these BP funds. And you know, they saw it after the Harvey, which dumped like fifty inches rained down there in the refuge. You know, a week later, you know that refuge is exactly what it's supposed to do, which is basically become a big filter and a sponge and protect those flows. And what it did was capture all that water, let it soak in, and that nature worked the way I supposed to work. And so those types of projects, not only acquisitions, but also restorations of you know, the flow sediments, of the flow regimes that produce the sediments. You know, the barrier islands, oyster reefs, artificial reefs. Those are going on all over the place, and that is really good for fish, wildlife, and it's good for that whole ecosystem. I have a question for you. I was um much younger um when this happened, I guess, and I'm asking you to try to okay, so we all love conservation here, but be as unbiased as possible. How fair was the BP deal to BP? I think it's pretty fair. Yeah, I mean I think this is the way I'm supposed to work. I mean, you you're you do something that is not only negligent but borderline criminal, you deserve to pay a penalty for it. I mean, if it was a slap in the wrist, I mean, what would prevent the next company from short circuiting or shortcutting all of its things? Is doing so? And and also I mean you're forgetting the impacts tourism to the fisheries you not only recreational but also commercial, and it's really hard to quantify a lot of those damages. Um. So you know, VP is not going out of business because of this. They make a lot of money. And uh, you know, as I think it's sent a very important signal to the rest of industry that you you cut corners like that, you're gonna pay the price of something goes wrong. I guess I just didn't know the details of it because at that point in my life I was kind of just ignorant to what a Yeah, we also don't know what a long term impacts are what are the impacts of like those sediments of the oil and stuff on the plagic fish, the tuna. You know, we really don't have a really good hand on that still because those fish are so long lived that you know, it's gonna take a while really to understand what happened. And then you talking migrations and stuff like that in there. You know, it's just it might be twenty thirty years for we see the huge impact that that had, and hopefully that doesn't happen, but it could, right Yeah, no, exactly, Yeah, So but anyway, I'm just what I'm just pleased is the money that they paid up didn't just go to the federal treasury, you know, be spent on god knows what it is actually being returned to fixing up those places where oil and gases had a big impact. I mean, from the you know, diversions to you know, everything else we've seen. I mean, listen, I drive a car, you know, I keep my house, So I appreciate that they were there. But at the same time, you can't deny that they had an impact on the ecosystem. That golf and something like this happens, you know, they I'm glad to see that money is going back in to tex that up. Yeah, definitely, definitely. It's uh yeah, it's nice to not see it just disappear into a party fund for politicians or something. Yeah. Yeah, as much fun as that would be. Yeah. So okay, So leaving the Gulf States, um, and heading kind of north where you might end up in the Midwest. And I know, uh, people like to lumping into the Midwest in the upper Midwest or they like to you know, delegate that, but um, maybe we'll lump it all together, even though Missouri may be a lot different from Wisconsin or Ohio or something like that. But um, you know, what are what's the what are the progress that we're seeing in the Midwest as a whole kind of well, I think that you know what, the area you're talking about's really sort of the bread basket of the country. That is agriculture country. It is you know, as for corns, soy beans, you know, a lot of the wheat you know comes from you know, that general part of the world. And so you can't talk about that area and talking about conservation without talking about the farm mill and so in December December January December November, I can't remember the exact date, we finally passed a new farm mill. And the farm bill works as a five year bill, so you make a basically five year commitment of what you're gonna do. And you know, a few years before this farm bill was coming up, and we pulled the conservation community together and really know, basically sat him in the room for a few days to come up with what our collective priorities are going to be, because in the past, you know, it's been very easy to get our community to sort of break apart, like a covey of quail, you know, when somebody dangles a little like Benny for your pium, you really like maybe you know CRP program that the pheasant guys love, or duck war Wetland's program duck guys love, or you know a you know, water quality thing with the fish guys love. And so this time we basically made a commitment that, you know, we're going to stick together, and we're gonna put four recommendations that float everybody's boat, and we're not gonna stray from those when the pressure gets on. And and I think we're pretty successful in that, and I think that the new farm bill that we got in December really is a testament to that. You know, it's got five billion dollars for conservation, which the same as the last farm bill, which is good. And but real quick, when you say we, you're talking about the different conservation works underneath the t RCP umbrella. Is that correct? Yeah, exactly, and the way you mean, just so your listeners understand how we operate. We are a coalition basically fit right now fifty eight different organizations and we have a basically an Agricultural Wildlife Working Group, which is the folks who work on the farm build includes almost thirty different groups. So that's the Ducts Unlimited, Pheasants Forever Delta water Fowl, Mule Deer Foundation, white Tails Unlimited q d M a ya. When I do to rattle off all the list of the various you know, species groups that have something to gain from conservation on private lands. And you know, as much as we like to talk about public lands, you know the country is in private lands about half of that is enrolled in some sort of conservation program. So these are huge benefits too. You know, in like Texas, you know those areas you're talking about in the Midwest. Yeah, they're not on a pot of public land in those states, so you really need to incentivize the private landowners to do what's right for conservation, and they'll do it. The majority of are really good stewards, um, but it's it could be pretty hand to mouth running a farm and you need to call together all the different programs you can get to stay above war sometimes. So yeah, we're really pleased the way this farm bill came out. I mean, the conservation reserve program, which if you're a pheasant hunter you know all about you know, got expanded from twenty four million acres to seven million, which is a good expansion. There's a because it has been in decline correct the last Oh yeah, that's the first time it's had an increase since. So, I mean there's a little less money it goes with us a budgetary standpoint. It came out kind of flat, so it's not as great as it sounds, but still as good. Uh. There's a big easement program called the Agricultural Agriculture Conservation Easement Program and that' saw an increase of two million dollars a year. So and that is for a much longer term easements that protect us like wet lissum, which is obviously if your war fowl hunter or you care about war quality, you know that is a really significant program. Little a lot of people don't know it, but the farm will also pays landowners to open up their land of public hunting and fishing. It's a program known as a Voluntary Public Access Habitat Improvement Program v p a HIP. And uh, they're going down next to a ten million dollars into that. And the way that has spent is that's about a fifty million dollar program. Now, so the way that spent is actually a competitive grants to states and then the state gets a block of say a couple of million dollars. Then they go out and negotiate easements with private landowners and so the private lander and gets a payment and in return he gets he opens up that land of public hunting and fishing and public access, and he gets the state assumes the liability. So somebody falls in a ditch and breaks her leg, you know that private land or is not liable for that. So you know, the farm bill has a ton of different benefits from ecological to just even hunting and fishing and socioecon Stomak. So we were really pleased and we got that, and that impacts every state throughout that you know, that Midwest from Michigan all the way down through Arkansas, Missouri. Cool. So I guess if you were to to kind of head west from there, you're getting into more plain states. Um, are we looking at similar winds there or what's is there anything different? Or yeah? Certainly the the Farm Bill had a big impact on a lot of those plain states. I mean, you may go from sort of row agriculture, which is what we see in a lot of the Illinois and Iowa two more catlegraizing country, but there are certainly benefits there in the farm Bill for those areas. And the other thing I would talk about in terms of a lot of those plains states, especially more of the western plains, like you eastern Montana, eastern Wyoming, you know that stage grouse country. And if you're you know burg hunter, Yeah, sage grouse is probably one of the species you actually haven't hunted for, but it's probably on your bucket list. It's big in the slow and something even I can probably get and he's pretty well. Um, and it is, but it's mostly really known for these sort of weird meeting dances it has, and your listeners can go on to you know, just go on to YouTube and google National Geographic Sage sage brush seed and there's a great, you know, sort of one hour documentary on stage grouse and the sage ecosystem. And this was a species that was declining rapidly. The historians say there are probably somewhere around sixteen million stage grass and that you know, sort of the Rocky Mountain Plains area that's really over eleven states. Historically today we're probably about a half million. So there was a real threat that this bird was going to get listed under the Endanger Species Act. So about a decade ago, a variety of different interests, including the federal government, but ranching groups, environmentalists, sportsmen all got together and said, what can we do basically to keep this bird from getting listed because there's some think it's listed in the Dangerous Species Act. You know, you sort of moved from the realm of voluntary contra conservation to the government telling you have to do it, which makes it way harder. So that isn't just affect yeah, hunters or fishermen. Yeah, and I mean think about sage grouse too. I mean, this is a species that grew up in areas they don't have trees, so if anytime it sees something, it gets away from it because that's where a big raptor would sit, and that's really it's main natural predator. So if it sees you know, power lines, and it sees oil, Derek, if it sees a wind turbine, it's going to vacate that area. And that is the major reason we were seeing this sort of broad decline in the species. Also, an area guess, you know, overgrazed, then there's really nothing, no place for it to hide and nothing for the first to eat. So you had a whole bunch of different factors coming together. So wil and gas are these agreements and UH in two thousand fifteen, everyone came together and Fishing Wildlife Service and at that time the abdministration announced that agreement had come and they were not going to list a species and that had huge implications in its over seventy million acres over eleven states. And the Trump guys came in. There was a lot of fear they were going to completely blow that up, but instead they actually took a much more deliberate process. Yeah, they opened up all the plans in these states, but they asked the changes that the governors might like to see. The governors made small tweaks, but they basically kept the plans as they had been. So what could have been a real disaster and a real sort of a sense that, gosh, we've worked all these years put together as voluntary plan, now it's getting blown up. That really didn't happen, so I think Actually, and we talked about the stage grass, which is a cool bird, but that same ecosystem, you know, that's critical habitat for mule deer, for pronghorn, and for basically three fifty of their species that you'll live out there. So there was a real fear that that if you know, as the stage grouse goes, so go all those other animals. And we've seen you know, the mule there numbers out western declining in a trend the wrong direction too, So we hope that this is going to stabilize that too. Yeah. Sure, And I guess using a sage grass as an indicator species is a great idea, but it's also difficult because I mean, they're ground nesting birds, so they're gonna have varying population levels annually. Right, So it's much more about the trends than it is more about the like current now what's going on in safe grass, right, So you really have to look back historically. Yeah, that's a great comment, because you can have a few years of drought and the numbers crash and that's natural, that's you know, that's always happened. Then you get a few really good, you know, wet ears and get a lot of vegetation and stage numbers they will explode again. So you're gonna see a lot of variation and populations regardless. But you're absolutely right, it's those long term trends that matter. Him. Um, we don't have to we don't have to go on like this big pump fest necessarily, but I would like to give props to the t RCP because of something you mentioned earlier. Um this you guys are really great in my opinion at um, not fearmongering too much and just allowing um the politicians too, you know, Like here's we're presenting the information to you, y'all, make you know, make a good decision, do what you know is right, you know, the kind of thing instead of kind of uh, you know, thinking that the world's gonna end one day and then the next day or everything's fine. So I would definitely give kudos to you guys for for being that kind of an organization. Well I appreciate that, and we we we try to do that. I mean, listen, I get yeah, I get piste off. I call people, you know, I call them out for doing bad things, and honestly we ought to be doing that. But you ought to just make sure you're the sciences behind you. Make sure you don't make it personal. You know, just because somebody has made a bad policy choice doesn't mean they're add person. And remember that the pendulum swings back and forth. You can't align yourself with one party here because you know, you know, Republicans are in charge one day, Democrats are being charged another day. These issues, you know, conservation, hunting, and fishing have always been issues that bring us together. They shouldn't be issues that divide us. I mean, you look back at you Richard Nixon's time, and Nixon was not you know, he's probably he'd probably never been outside in a national park, but he figured, but he understood that in a time of Watergate, the Vietnam War race riots that this was something that could bring the country together. So that's when the Clean Water Actors passed. That one was e p A was created. All happened under of Nixon because that was something that transcended politics, and I think the issues today are the same. I mean, we had yesterday, you know, a huge victory in the Senate, a big public lands package passed permanently reauthorized land Water Conservation Fund. It had a provision in there that affirmed that all public lands are open for hunting and fishing unless they're specifically closed through a public process. So this had huge wins for everybody. This thing basically passed. I think the final margin was ye eight and one of the fine senator from Texas was one of the names, So that was cool. I wasn't gonna mention that, yeah, he has never been a huge fan of conservation. He has not, but we're not going to name me. But anyway, that this is another example that yeah, we don't have to be shrilled, We don't have to say that you know that the sky is falling in this stuff, because you know, we have you know, basically him right is on our side. I mean, this is good for everybody, the Republican or Democratic. Sure, that's awesome. So, uh, could you give a quick rundown for those who may not know what the LWCF does. Sure? So. Land Water Conservation Fund was created in the nineteen sixties and that time there was a big debate going on about whether to open up the Outer Continental shelf um of the US to oil and gas development. And they finally came up with a compromise that yes, they would open it up, but in return, the oil and gas industry would pay nine hundred million dollars every year in the NIVE. That was a lot of money into a special fund that would pay for conservation. It would pay for land acquisitions, it would pay for city parks, um. So a lot of the you know, really important land conservation projects we've talked about, and we've seen this country and maybe it may be a great hunting and fishing area. It may also be the Manassas Battlefield outside of DC. Those were protected under Land Order Conservation Fund. Now, the problem is, initially was I think a fifty year authorization, which is a long time for Congress. That came three years ago. Congress gave a three year extension to that that ran out in September, and so there was real concern that we needed to get this reauthorized and uh, and we need basically, it shouldn't ever expire. Money keeps going into theorough government, so it ought to keep coming out for these good things. And so in as part of this big public lands bill, we finally got that permanent reauthorization and now that goes to the House and the House has got to vote on it. We think that's going to pass easily and then go to the President signature, and we think that's going to sign that. So the end of the day will at least have a permanently reauthorized Lane of Horror conservation fund. Now, the other problem with us is that nine million dollars at the willing gas industry pays into this fund. Only one time in the last fifty years or fifty four years now has Congress actually given all that money back out for conservation. It raised that fund and pays for deficit reduction for god knows what those big parties we were talking about so work and how the big fight is going to be this oiling astons pain is fund already, Why is it the Congress gets to rate it and spend it for other things. Let's take it off budget. Money comes in, let's get a spend out and uh so, but yeah, that's gonna that's gonna continue to be a fight because Congress who likes to rate it for other projects. Sure, do you feel like there's enough um hands reaching out to get the conservation funding or is it a situation where that money sits here for just long enough for somebody else to say, hey, we're gonna take that instead. Well, I mean, the problem is is how this whole bill was written the first place. It should have been taken off budget from day one. And there are a lot of true trust funds were created where the money gets collected and goes into a true trust fund and gets spent out for the purpose you know that it was intended for. I mean, you look at things like the Pittman Robertson text, which is if you buy a gun or ammo, you know that goes into a federal account and then goes out to the states to pay for conservation fishing side. It was the Dingle Johnson then called the wall A bro Program. Now those were true trust funds that money is collected and then goes back out to the States. LBCF was not set up that way, so it gave Congress the ability to rate it. And I think they were naive to think that. You know, the Congress is ever going to change its ways unless they're told they can't do that anymore. So. So anyway, I mean, we've been getting about four hundred million dollars a year over the past decade or so, which is still a lot of money for good projects, but there is a huge backlog of really deserving projects out there can't get funded because you know, Congress doesn't appropriate all the money it could. So the funny thing about politics is, uh, words never really mean what they're supposed to mean in this sense. Is permanent really permanent? Yeah, unless they were unauthorized at some point. I mean, you can go back in and eliminate the program. Congress wanted to do that. I think that would be I can't imagine them doing that. Um so, no, that actually means permanent. Good. So, uh, Once the settlers made it through the Great Plains, they came to this huge wall of mountains called the Rockies, and it stretches from I guess New Mexico all the way up into northern Canada. I guess right, And so it's a very large area. I'm sure there's some conservation winds that have happened in the Rockies. Oh yes, my friend. So. And also if you're a big game on our nest sort of shank for a lot, that's where you go out to chase your elk, your mule deer, you know all, you know, sheep, you know whatever it is. You're into the animals that I've never seen back here. Um. Yeah, But anyway, so that's it's just super cool country and just an amazing part of that is public lands and so and that is really you know, the downty that our forefathers and left once. Now we've done a lot to screw that up, and we've developed a bunch of areas really with short sightedly not thinking about the fact that, for example, these animals after migrate, you know, they hang out up in the high country in the summertime, you know, grazing and eating one of the eat and then come snows they move down. They have to migrate someplace where they can winner five the winners and so National Geographic and others have been doing a ton of research on this and there's just super cool videos about this, but a lot of the focus has really been on, you know, recently on this sort of that Wyoming area, the south Yalla Stone going down toward Pinedale and what knew of your migration. And they've discovered that mule there will travel up to two d miles every year during this migration and a lot of the places they go, you know, they need they need a few things. I mean, they need stopover points where there's really good habitat they can eat and gain their strength and keep moving. They need to be able to get through little pinch points which may be a quarter mile wide that the entire herd has to move through, and then they have to cross a variety of highways and fences. And so you know, now there's a real process. And I'm gonna give the Truck Administration credit here because you know, they put death word of Secretary order last year, you know, directing all the agencies to identify, you know, these migration quarters and do what they need to do to protect them. And so what they did was put a call out to all the Western states and said tell us your three to five most important wildlife corridors and we'll work with you to conserve those. So the states have identified those in some states like Wyoming's got pretty darn good data on this. Other states have almost none, so it's kind of like guesswork. So there's part of research was needed to and they've kicked in a little money for research on this, and so now I think we have a real opportunity to conserve this areas because if you're an oil and gas industry, you can PLoP a derek right down in the middle of a migration quarridor or with a little forethought you can move a couple of miles off it and draw diagonally underneath it. You may add a few more dollars to your cost of operating, but it's going to protect that migration quarter. And you know, so now where there's really some new attention on just doing it right and identifying these key areas. There are some areas out there that honestly you have don't have a ton of ecological value. I mean, yeah, I'm sure if my brethren will kill me for common with that, but they're perfectly they're perfectly fine places to put oil fields or solar rays or wind farms, um. But other places are incredibly important ecologically and really we're just figuring out that data which is all that's where those areas are and how we can conserve them. Now. Now, to give a little bit of you know, criticism of Truk administration, they got these areas from the states and uh, instead of saying, okay, we're not gonna do any leasing those areas, they just kept on leasing. Now their responses, well, if the state wants us to withdraw all lease in the quarter or they will do that. But that's throwing the onus back on the state to ask for something so that the state now guess the fire of the oil and gas industry and uh, you know, it just seems like kind of a cop out there. But overall intentions the program are good and we're gonna try to make it, you know, work over time. That's something Joel has been working on a lot. I guess. Yeah. Joel Webster's our runs our Western Public Lands program at ZOOLA and he's been really involved with the whole program. We might have to get him some time to talk about ye because he's way more nogel about it than I am. In fact, it was a program that we try to get the obaministration to put in place, and they were nervous about it because they just thought that industry, grazing community, you know, others, we're going to just subject. So they were gonna put some really namby pamby language in the handbook, just saying, you know, look out for these things. Actually, the secretary order that Zinki did was far stronger than that, and so we give them credit for that. But now they're just has to be some teeth in the implementation. Sure, yeah, sure, Is there any incentives set up in place for for say, like graziers or old companies or something to actually have practical practices that are that that you know, help the ecologically like we want ago you said it would cost a little bit more too diagonally drill. Is there any funding coming in anywhere to actually incentivize them to do such things? Not so much with the will and gas industry. I think the thought is they make so much money anyway that they can afford, you know, a little bit extra costs, especially if it's sort of you know, reduces the risk that you know, groups out there going in file suit or protests against it. I mean the legal costs alone. I suspect they make they probably make money a long term by doing it right in the first place and avoiding these conflicts on the private land side. There are some programs, certainly in the farm bill. Yeah, there was a whole program about working lands for wildlife, and they're incentives and grants that go to private land orders do the right thing for a wildlife and that may be like redesigning fencing to make it easier for animals to move through, and they've been doing that for Stage group, but they also can do that for big game. You know, we hosted a workshop in Assault Lake City a couple of weeks ago with the fishing, Game Departments of all the states UM and the Departments of Transportation from all the states, because you know, we have a highway bill coming up in the next couple of years and we need to be thinking about wildlife crossings because if you you can either sort of let these animals, you know, play Frogger going across the road, or you can put in an underpassed or an overpass and allow these animals to move across and think long term. Yeah, it costs a little bit of money, but you're gonna save a ton of money if you're the insurance company on cars getting hit. You're not gonna have people killed by colliding with a boster an elk And I think overall it makes a ton of sense. We lack sensible things. Yes, so, um, you know, if you were to follow the Rockies all the way down in New Mexico, you start getting to different, different world in the Southwest, and we have what you what we consider this part of the Southwest in our state here in Texas as well. Um, but I know of there, it's an arid country and their issues around water, I'm sure, oh there are, and a lot of it involves the Colorado River. Um. But we actually had a big breakthrough in that this past year too, when all the states along the Colorado River are finally agreed to a drought contingency plan, and which means that basically that has to be authorized by Congress. But we think there's gonna be probably small opposition to that here. But it essentially lays out the fact that you know, as waters, you know, flows decrease, you know how that cut is divide it up among the various states, And it was your first step for basically you know, stopping the starting to you know, take less water out of that river where it's already over appropriated. You've seen the pictures of Lake Mead and uh, you know so, but this finally becomes a step that everybody is on the same page. But how we can sort of reduce consumption here, which is critically important for a bunch of those trout rivers that are along, you know, the perform the tributaries of the Colorado and in place like Wyoming in Colorado met some of the best route fishing in the world out there, and but there's a huge pressure to you know, divert more and more water as you know, communities like Denver and Boulder, you know, Phoenix, you know, as they grow and grow and they everyone has their irrigated lawns out fun. I mean, we can do a whole lot better than that. So am I wrong? Is California a part of this? Oh? Yeah, California is part of it too, and it goes southern California. It takes takes a bunch of water out of the Colorado, Right, That's what That's what I thought. I thought I had seen a special in that one time. So that um so what states would this involved? Oh boy? I mean, how your president would be from everything from Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, California probably missing something in there. Is Mexico involved. Well, they're gonna be part of the beneficiary of this because ideally, you know, actually get work. So because there are a lot of years where no waterflows in Mexico. I got you. Yeah, okay, So good for them, I guess, even though they're not really technically a part of that. But I mean, I mean, technically, I think we're supposed to leave some watering for them to get. You know, they don't get it. Usually the fact that we actually have something that flows to the sea is a good thing. Yeah, okay, cool. So, uh, if you were if you were to head up now on our trip here and we're kind of getting towards the end, we're, uh, we're heading north and we get into the Pacific Northwest, which I guess is maybe Oregon, maybe north northern California. All I mean, can you say all the way to Alaska? Pretty much? Oh? Absolutely? And I think they're there are different issues along there, but I'll give you one success story. I mean, you guys saw the reports about fires on California and you know, washing Oregon. Last year I made. It was just devastating, and uh, you know, and part of that is, you know, some of those were on private lands and doesn't really have a whole lot of doo with the federal policy, but you know a lot of those were national force and we have got such a screwed up system and how we fight forest fires pay for fighting forest fires in this country that it directly contributes to getting war forest fires. So right now, unlike any other natural disaster hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, if a cast rocket fire comes through, the Forest Service has to pay for that from his core budget, which means now, I think last year they spent almost six percent of their budget fighting fires, which means there's no money to go in and do habitat work, to do fire prevention work, to do clearing, do thinning, any of the things you would need to do to protect communities in the future from other fires. So last year we got a deal finally worked out that takes catastrophic fires basically off budget and moves them over to FIMA, which is where all the other emergency disasters pay for. From that that will allow the Forest Service to actually get back into the business of managing habitat, and if they're managing habitat, that means they're not is that good for fishing wildlife, but that's good for fires, that's good for getting rid of invasive species, us a whole host of different you know, positive impacts, and that's going to impact any of those states that have large national forests, including northern California. So you're you just said pretty much that the Force Service is now going to have a sixty percent increase in available funding. It won't be quite that much because basically only catastrophic fires. That's you probably half of their overall firefighting pleasure. These just massive fires we've never seen before but now that we're seeing all the time. So those are the ones that are taken off there. They're still gonna have to fight fires from their core budget, just the regular fires. They are sort of everyday fires that we've seen in the past, but it won't be this overwhelming burden like they have right now. Yeah, sure, that that is terrific. So, um, does that go along with a new look at how we manage forests in the West and with you know, maybe more controlled burns and that sort of thing. Absolutely, So I think that you know, Listen, there was you think back to the early eighties and the os sagas of the spotted owl, and listen, I mean we the pendulum swung too far. We were cutting way too much timber on a lot of our national forest. And but now the pendulum is overswung again and we're not cutting enough food and to the point where we've also actually lost a lot of mills out there that we need. Now if we're going to go back into sort of rational forest management, which includes you know, finning work and includes restoration work, it includes you know, sort of doing much more aggressive harvesting around communities, that's sort of forest fire interface, I mean the urban forest interface where we see a lot of the fires and where the people get really impacted. So I think we're gonna see, you know, just I think also there's been you know, we put stuff in the farm bill. There was another compromise we did the forest funding fixed to make it easier actually get wood have the forest because you know, largely a lot of the you know, the Forest Service, you would spend a year or two designing a timber sale. Get everybody bought off on it. Most of the environmentalists, you know, the timber, the timber community, sportsmen's groups. And then the eleventh hour, you know, some group that nobody ever heard of files a lawsuit and it you know, takes another two or three years to get it out. And so we finally got some stuff in there that sort of protects against that frivolous kind of fighting for folks who think that every tree is sacred, should never be cut. Um. But you know that's you know, the reality is that active forest management is a good thing in most places. Hey, I love wilderness. I love those areas that never get cut, but you need to have that mosaic. You need to have areas that are managed to Yeah. Right, So what else is going on up there? We gotta big river. Everyone's talked about salmon in the northwestern you know sound populations are in pretty grim shape, you know, all the way up to Alaska, UM. But we have a project that is going to happen begin I think in where a bunch of dams on the Klamath River are going to come out. There are old dams, they don't produce much power, and the power company, Pacific Corps, you know, agreed to you know program that they would basically abandoned those dams and have them removed, and federal government would oversee that process, and uh, you know that has the best chance for restoring salmon in that sort of central coast area. The Klamate was right on that Oregon California border and as beautiful habitat, and we get rid of these dams is going to open up a bunch of areas for spawning that haven't been there for generations. So that's a good one. Um, we have, you know, they've been not th dam removal programs and the law and the Limpid Peninsula outside of Seattle that came out a couple of years ago, and I've actually got our media summer this year is going to be out in Seattle, so you guys hopefully get to see it. We're gonna do a trip down there before or after the summit and really see that river, see what it looks like now the dams are out, and even get to do some fishing. Wow, that would be cool. Yeah. Actually just got to drive over that river once and it was pretty just you know, it gets kind of surreal when you get out there on the West coast and see those big, giant clear rivers. You know, it's just I don't know that you see big rivers in the west, but it's just it's a different thing when you know that there's used to be millions of salmon that run those right, and those salmon are coming back in a hurry in the and it's a great story and I have not been out there and seeing it, so I'm excited to do that. Yeah, yeah, very cool. And then when we go further north up into Alaska, I mean that is one place that is not screwed up in salmon in fact, just does a remarkably good job managing its fisheries overall and salmon included. And but even they've been there, they're constantly threats for having to deal with like the pubble of mind of the headwarters of Bristol Bay. And we thought we had that mine pretty much on the you know, in the coffin with a bunch of nails coming in. But now it's good, like a zombie is raised back up again. And you know, so you know, thanks to this EPA administration that you sort of green light at the permitting for the project. You know, the project is could not be a worst design project. Is the most two of the largest salmon rivers in the world, the Cue, the Queen Jack and the New Stack and uh, and it's an area where you know, you know, seismically active zone that you know, just and he would require this open pit mine and this giant tailings pond that would require eternal that's forever mitigation. And the notion that we had put that in a place like that and threatened that salmon resources just remarkable. So, I mean, I think that we're gonna kill this thing eventually. But what we thought was just about dead a while ago is now staggering around again and waiting for a few more blows. Man. That's awesome. Man. So lots lots of good things going on. Like you said, I mean, I don't know, this is definitely this is uh built my confidence and and what we're doing. I'm glad that you made that statement at the beginning about how this is the good old days, because glad to be alive. That's the case, you know. Um, we appreciate your all, your your knowledge and and um as far as that goes, there's a lot of knowledgeable people that work for the t RCP. What's the best way for for people like us to to get involved and allow you guys to inform us of the issues. Yeah. So just you know, we we don't do magazine, we don't do a direct mail, but just come to our website. You know, it's www dot TRCP dot org and uh, you know, sign up as an activist, make a little donation, get a hat, get a knife, big enough donation to get a kimber rifle. Night. Um So, but you know, and also you know, listen, we're looking for folks who want to be you know, activists who want to be advocates, who want to help us, you know, get the word out in states around the country. And uh, if you're folks or listeners or game to do that, you know, look at look us up, contact us. You know, we have something of ambassadors in a bunch of our states, which are basically, you know, really skilled volunteers that are engaging on certain issues on our behalf and we'd love to have more of those. So anything the folks can do, we just just don't sit in your recliner and do nothing. We're actually sitting now, but you guys are doing something that's right. Yeah, so that's cool. You're sitting a recliner and send us a check. That's fine, Yeah, no kidding. The money helps to always. Yeah, So we'll link to that if you're listening. The link to t r CP is in the show notes right here below. And wit Man, we appreciate your time and like I said, your expertise, your knowledge about all these different things that it makes me feel small in this world to listen to people like you. But that's a good listen. You know. I'm just really appreciate you guys are just so committed to getting the word out about this stuff because you know, a lot of the folks to do the Hunting show was you know, just it's all about just to kill and it's not about you know, why we're able to do this stuff. So I really appreciate you guys getting word out. Cool. Thanks, well, thanks man. Well I'm sure we'll be talking to you. Seeing sounds great guys, calling time. Okay, all right, you two, I feel like my mind's eyes at least seen the whole, the whole, uh Continental US. At this point, you are almost about to be there anyways, you go everywhere, you've seen it all. Dude, I'm thinking I'm taking a big trip to I've still got several places. Uh, I haven't seen actually wits country. I haven't been up there much. I would really well, So I kind of talked about this in the interview with Wit, but um, you know, I got to go I got to go up to Annapolis, Maryland, which is in that same area, mid mid Atlantic kind of thing. Uh. We played Navy up there, you know, so I got to see that part of country. We went to you know, West Virginia, which is up that way, I guess. But yeah, I haven't been up to the like really the northeast at all, the rosen By country. Your boy, man, you know what, I feel good like that that interview did. It's it's job, you know, Like there's so much of this like doom and gloom, especially by some of the three letter organizations running around out there, and we really need to like realize that it's not all bad. Right, there's a lot of good things happening. This world is a good place, and it's better than it used to be. Right, It's not like it's like just spiraling down into this you know a bit of nothingness, right man, It's just crazy. I kind of talking about it. I was trying to say it without saying it. I guess earlier, but you know, like the l l l w CF is like if you'd if you'd asked me two months ago, I said that it's probably not gonna pass because of all the media that I had consumed. I guess, you know, I didn't know, but it just seems like that's the way everybody's talking about it, like, and it passed with flying colors. Yeah, And this is one of those things where it's like it's probably our own faults because if you get all your information from one place, it's gonna be biased, and it's gonna be skewed. There's just these natural bias biases. Is that is that it sounds good? Yeah, like based like it? Yeah, Okay, so that people have and sometimes they're more prominent than others, right, but if if you don't do your due diligence and get out and learn things on your own and and look for sources and nowadays because apparently like the news isn't gonna bring it to its right, so uh, you gotta get out and get the real scoop. And that I was so guilty of that because I just bought into like what the rhetoric was from one place. You know well, I mean our four letters organization here t RCPs. Why do they got four letters? That's why they're legit, why they're doing a good job. Man, I feel like, um, you know, like you do. You have to. You have to do your research and check up every once in a while. But when you do your research and you find I've said this before, you find an organization or two that you feel like you can depend on. Um, that's when you go, Okay, this is a busy time in my life. I'm just gonna rely and trust these couple of organizations and in two years I'll check back in and make sure they're still doing the right thing, you know what I mean. I think that's kind of how you have to approach it, because you can't as I mean personally, as just a blue collar guy that works a lot and has a family, I can't really stay up to date on everything that I would like to, you know what I mean, Maybe when I'm retired or if I ever do that, you know, then maybe I'll have that chance. But um, or if I won the lottery, which I don't play. You know, look, you know, like I get Christmas lottery tickets every year from some of my family members, so you never know, to quote the office. Your sister would be happy. I already won the lottery. Baby has born in the good old us of A. That's that's good enough for me. So anyway, um, yeah, we don't forget. We've uh we've linked to the t RCP in this podcast episode, so if you're interested, go check them out. They'll keep your abreast of what's going on. Great organization. We've been really excited to work with them, and uh just thankful that that we stumbled out reached out stumbling to them at some point early on. Do you remember how this all happened? Right, there's a little quick thing. How cool social media is? I think, uh, they followed us on social media when we were a little bitty baby social media account and apparently we posted something they thought were was cool and it's turned into like one of my greatest uh what would you call this conservation relationships? Friendtionship, conservationship? There you go. I mean, how many friends and like good people and great knowledge if we obtained through like our you know, relationship with RCP like most for real dude, for real, dude, it's so education when we get to go on those media Summits too. It's just like I remember we had that uh with Brian Murphy. Yeah, that c w D rage. Uh, what's it? It's the what's the word? It's a moratory or something like motorial moratorium. Yeah, on the movement of any live service. And I'm like I'm talking about he was like ready to punch if you don't like tapped him on the shoulder when he just sent to you in the face. Dude, I didn't get the irish thing going at that point. He's ready to go. He was ready to through it. Yeah. Uh so anyway, yeah, Um, like I said, the link is in the notes here. And then also we have linked to the Texas Public lan Buck the first one that we got Casey got a shot and I thought that made a really great film, man. So I hope you guys if you haven't seen it, we'll check that out in a small game. Saturday's coming soon. Uh, we're gonna post that video, I think Tuesday, hopefully, if everything goes right. So lots of cool things going on right now. We're trying to work through this off season together. Uh, let's just be friends and hug it out and hopefully we'll get a Turkey season, shed season and uh sail into efficient season after that. Oh man, it was seventy three today, so efficient season might be now. Even the birds are starting to sound like spring geese today. Geese are coming back through hard a humbug yesterday. Well, it's gonna have a hard time finding them. I know that. Whenever you said that, I was like, you want to come down here like electronic call? Yeah, that's calling. If I could, if I had the amount of decoys and everything to do it, I would do it. Yeah. So, um, I know we're trying to wrap this up, but that ranch he's going to Uh the state agency I used to work for did the hall control on that ranch. Cool, so a lot of my uh uh what counterparts? They went over there and did the area operations on that too, and uh they shot seven thousand hogs. Oh my god, it was crazy. That's a little bacon at We gotta wrap it up. I have so many quotes I can do. Are you aking bacon? He's a big pig. So we got to get out of here. God bless you guys, and remember this is your element living it

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