00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Tylan and this and you're listening to the Element podcast. What's happening on on What's People Today? Is a special episode? Uh? Special? Uh? Is it an episode? I guess it's an episode? Is it episodic? Is it part of our episode? In so by technicality it has to be because um the hosting site makes it that way. But either way, it's a special episode with our good friend Chris Derek from Sick of Gear. We normally don't do a lot of product placement stuff, but Chris is a good buddy of ours. We've we've made friends with him over the past few years, and he wanted to do this so that he could tell us some about the new offerings, especially the revamped Whitetail pack line and SICKA has this season. Now we have all three packs, the new packs that they're offering. Uh, we had to all spring. We got to use what's called the tool belt quite a bit, or I I did. You probably put it on a time or two, but I used it for the most part and loved it. And because they sent us that stuff and we like Chris, we decided that we would help him out and uh showcase some of their fine products that have been coming out. Uh. So you can go check out the video links um on our YouTube to see a better demonstration of these. But for now we'll let Chris tell us about them. All right. So now on the phone, we've got Chris Derek from Sick of Gear. Chris, this is your second time on the podcast, Is that right? I believe so. Yeah. So we actually got to do an any in person interview with you, um there at the headquarters when we were in Bozeman a couple of years ago. And that was a dude, that was a trip. And so we've been actually off air talking and you have got uh some connections to grizzly bears and so we uh we we were up there in Bozeman and uh we have a buddy that actually used to work at SICK and we stopped by to see him, and uh he was like, do you guys have bear spray? And we're like, no, we were maybe gonna get some if we went into the mountains, you know, and he was like, dude, they're like grizzlies pretty much in town. And he was like he walks back to his desk and he grabs like a forty four mag and hands it to us or whatever it was at five I think it was what it was, but he like hands it to us and goes, you know, just get it back to me when you can. And we're at that point we were like, we gotta get some bear spray. Um. But anyway, all that, I guess I can just go a different direction here. How's your summer going, man, it's going good. Yeah, And we were we were toying around. We were talking about like the property that y'all had just purchased over there, and then I bought some here, and I was explaining that I bought it from the guy that started you have bear spray. So I feel like it's like in the cards now, I like I keep wondering, like, is there like gonna be a sign where like I take them alling at some point in the woods elk cunning around here and then they'll be like, yeah, but he bought the bear spray guy's house so like, and he got malled. So it's like kind of in the card that Chris is gonna take them allet so I hope not come with a laptop supply of spray, you know, since Mark gave me, Yeah, he gave me a couple of hands and everything else, and like so it's got like, you know, like the warehouse he used to have here, like you know, part of his you see where he kind of first started the business here, And like I was like, but it's just been like weighing on me ever since. I was, like, I wonder, you know, is there some some sort of like a spell I need to go like find like a tarot card reader or something and like do some weird thing with me. Sometimes like when you know somebody who makes apparel, they might send you a prototype, And when you got to know the guy that makes bear spray, you might not want him to send you a prototype that that's definitely a true state the field tis Yeah, that's you man. Right after I got the place, I just had to read market the Grizzly and now I've just been obsessed with it ever since then. So ever since I met him. That's cool. Did he come with a really big pepper garden too? Is that how it works? Like? Is R and D part of like you order a bunch of Carolina Reapers and having arrows and stuff and playing them and just see what works best? Is how it works? Yeah? I think you guys live in the better area for Carolina reapers and even like grow efforts here. So yeah, yeah, what's the So is it summertime there, because I know, like people from Montana tend to consider this time of year different than we do. Sometimes. Yeah, it's rain it's the rainy months. Like we got two more weeks and then they turned the God turns the faucet off and then it turns dry and then we got smoke seasoned for a while and then so um, but yeah, I know winter like we'll get a little dashes this summer. Last week was cold and then it was hailing on me yesterday while we were hiking. So we went out for Father's Day and and uh and we were up in the mountains hiking and started hailing on us. So kind of like a mix of gruff and rupel and and hail. So it can happen twelve months of the year here or so. Yeah, we were there when we were when we met with you. Actually that time we were there in August early August, and it snowed. We floated the Yellowstone River uh and fished and we there was snow all over the mountains around the Yellowstone River. So it's uh, it's pretty scary when you start thinking about going into going into the mountains and doing an overnight trip there around Bozeman. Sometimes you got grizzly snow. I mean for a text and that is just can we please get a water boys we come here. It's an eye opening experience. It's a different world. Yeah, yeah, for sure, man, that's cool. So you, uh, did you do some fishing for Father's Day? Yeah? We, uh we did a little bit, my sons. I guess you saw the picture. That kid good fish. If I let him, he'd probably never do school. Probably if he can hunt fish all day long. I think he would for the rest of his life. So I think we're going to turn him into a fishing guide and a hunting guide when he gets older, because, uh, that's all he seems to care about. That was me when I was yeah, oh yeah, man, that's that. You know, he's got his properties around place, and you just gotta make sure he does a little homework here and there. So that's all I both work. Hated it hated homework. You probably were better at homework to me because you're a much smarter guy. That's just that remains to be seen. I don't know you. You know, you guys are constantly innovating and that kind of thing. I know that's like a um, you know, this is one thing that Casey and I cope against. And we talked about this recently on on a podcast. But um, you know, the the creativity is not an easy thing. Um. It's actually really tough to come up with something out of thin air, right And and I know you and this is this is something that's very effective at being a help towards creativity. But having a team and that kind of thing is a big, a big part of it. And you guys are releasing a bunch of new stuff this year, uh, different features that kind of thing. But you know you work hard. I can. I know you do, because you're a tough guy to get in touch with sometimes and you know you ignore my calls and my tax and but I know kid anyway, So so, but how are you like able to compile like enough information to just keep improving on what could be the best white tail apparel out there? I mean, part of it is it's just I mean, you guys, for examples, send feedback when you see stuff and so what you like and you don't like and and you know, and then you have we have a whole group of folks that test and give us feedback. Um. So that's one way you get it. But sometimes too, you just got to look for the problem because people don't really I can't either express or maybe don't know it. Like none of us knew we needed like an iPhone, for example, until we had it, you know, And so those are always the hardest things to find, but you know, people are are all the time. One of the easiest ways to get it is you just like, so and so, you know, sent me a text and like I kind of jot it down and if you start to see common themes, yeah, okay, just make sure kidding with you, man, I'm giving you a hard time. I don't think I've ever texted you that you haven't taketed me back. So that's true. Everybody, don't think I'm sla not know not. Chris is a great guy. That's why we're on the phone with them right now. And and um, like I said that, being able to reach out to all these different people, I think you know. You told us a story earlier off air about how somebody had called into the support Uh, they're at Sica and ended up being like, um, part of the development of of a different um piece of apparel, is that right? You see? Do you see that happen a lot there. Yeah. Every once in a while like um, Like, for example, we had a consumer by the name of Marie email customer service complained about like we we were doing some work on the New Fanatic up past and just said, hey, you know, we face this problem. We can't leave to use the restroom out of the tree stand like guy scam. And so she actually became a part of the team and and a group of women came together and solve that problem. So the New Fanatic has like a release if some compatible for like Goo girl type devices or whatever or so, um, now women don't have to get out of the stay. I'm just like men. We don't sell those devices, but they're out there in the market, we uh, and they're compatible with it. So that's just one of the ways that um, you know, it's always kind of like weird talking about that, but that's like a real problem. I mean, you guys are solving issues around that constantly, right, yep. So that's something in the New Fanatic, you know, it's got all the quiet stuff that the men's did last year, some more warmth UH areas for for women just because of you know the nature of of cold nature and and extra stuff that's built in there and and so now the women's fanatic is um got all the same features of the men's plus more so. Now you'll just need to release the licensing to elevate it too for those go girl companies or whatever, and then you know, collab over there we'll pass. Okay, So uh, y'all do have quite a bit of new stuff gonna be hitting the lines this year. You know, you talked about the women's fanatic system, but like on a high level, what has been what's been introduced or changed up a little bit? Yeah, maybe i'll summon up up front and then we'll go into some details for the people who are want to dig in on that. We updated the stratus um. We've got a new like heavier weight insulation pant that's like a mid layer coming out called the Equinox Committee pants UM. And then the really big stuff around the men's UH this year too, or I guess it would be even unisex, but the uh the UH path line. So we've now are launching three separate paths and a rain cover. So uh, you know, a lot of work and rounding out the pack line. We had the Fanatic that came out last year for Ultra Quayat. We've got a large capacity pack. We've got a uh redo to the toolbox, uh to to make some things that are better, you know, like the features I was talking about. And then we got a really kind of smaller running gun style pack. That's that's a smaller so for minimalist dude, that um running gun pack you're talking about. That's the tool belt, right that you're referring to. Uh, it is a tool belt. Yeah, yeah, that's a that's so that's our smallest capacity pack. Um. So it's six hundred cubic inches. Um. But what I like about it is with some of the with the removable shoulder stroup system that doubles as a stuff sack. You can pack like a fanatic jacket or Stratas jacket, a Celsius midi and even another layer inside of it, and it compresses down and then that goes away in the pack. Um. And then for everyone I'm describing this to, you know, all of this information like you can see the stuff and like him. Um, and you know there'll be some more information on it coming out earlier at the beginning in July. But um, it's just like a mini bucket style pack. So a lot of our packs are like a bucket since you hang them on aitory stand and throw it throw your stuff into it. Um. Two removable water bottle holders on the side, and then um everything for like your wind indicators right there on your hip uh, so you can access it with your right hand um, and then you can uh hang it from the lid. Or if you maybe like our gun hunting and you'd like to keep your light pop tarts and your your snacks all like right in your lap, which you can like slip the lid. Yeah, you can slip it open, get can whatever, you know, all that type of stuff you go in there. But you you have it all like you can sit right on the front of your hips, um, and you can open the lid the other way. So it's got like a two way open lid. UM. And then the bottom of the pack also has like if for a bow hanger arm, you can slide that into a sleeve across the bottom. You can put antlers most antlers, I would say, can fit on a nest on the pack with like the the bases going into a set of straps and then your g two times getting wrapped together on another one. Um, so you know everything. When I wear this pack, I can literally just walk up to the tree, climb up the tree, reach back behind me, pull out my bow, hanging arms screwed in the tree, throw my bow up off the sling, and I'm ready to go, you know, up up and set up in like five minutes or less. And that's kind of there's a motif across the packs, right that there's like a grommet that you can hang um from kind of the lid that you can hang the pack on and it opens up and gives you all your options right there in the tree, right Yeah. And that's like why we kind of have this like tool bucket kind of like they're all kind of dealt with that kind of same thought and like some side compartments and like one deep cavity um and and what's really cool about the tool belt to what I've I've liked the most about one whence we started digging into this with with people is if you want to run in like early season and you don't need a lot of layers. You just take the shoulder strap system off or you know, and it just stows away. Um or you can you know, put it on and use it for semextra of harnessing. Leave the shoulder shrap on. But then when you get up in the tree, you can pop it off and then you've got like a really low profile. You've just gotten this like tiny little pack hanging on the stand next to you. Um. And so you can stuff all that stuff away. But then in late season you can pack in that whole laboring system you need. You put that on when you get in a tree, and then take it off, you know, take that that stuff that pop off too, and the one little trick on that stuff back too. You see those little wire gate buckles. If you throw the strap ships this system over that and then run the shoulder straps like through that wire gate buckle, you got just like a separate little mini stuff bag. It doesn't even have to be attached to the hip belt or to the hip pack. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. So saddle hunting is like all the rage right now. Uh, and a lot of people are looking for options to be able to run, you know, compatible with a saddle, and I was thinking that the tool belt might be one of those things that kind of works that way where you might not even need to take it off whenever you're in the tree. Have you messed with that much or seeing how the compative compatibility works with that, Yeah, I've done that. I do still like to take mine off just because, Um, when your saddle hunting, like I did a bunch of it last year, and I was kind of like you guys said, even I think talked about it when we first met, and I was like, I don't know about it. Like after doing that last season, I actually killed the deer out of the saddle from my off hand side. And really, I'm telling you, it's like the greatest thing for mobile hunting. If you're doing hanging on it's like you go set your stand and then climb down. There's nothing better than being able to like run three sticks with like an eight or in that tiny little platform, like there's nothing to carry with you and it's, uh, it's really fast and easy to set up. So I mean people that are skeptical and I was one of them, um, And so usually what I'll do is I'll climb up and you can leave your that on with the saddle as you're climbing like the hip pac and then when you get up you if you want that you could leave it on and roll it to the front of you, which would be fine. But you know, normally, what I like to do is take mind and kind of set it up on the back side of the tree, away from me since you're doing all that rotating um uh, you know, to swing out and around the tree. Um. And so that's why I like to have it off just because. But you can do it anyway you want. Like if I were to say this is the way to do it, there's probably seven people that are going to say, there's twelve different ways to I think that's your underestimating there. People like to be contrary. Okay, So for the guys who haven't converted over into adult adult dippreciate we have by the way, we're all about the dolt dipper. But uh we there's like a there's you know, three new offerings from packs and then let's go from the smallest to the biggest here. Uh, what's the toolbox? Is that what we care cargo box? And that's you for the guy who say has his lone wolf for whatever and is real attached to it. Um, that's the big guys, or maybe not the big guy, but the the full size hang on stand pack, right, I mean you're gonna be able to actually detach it and put the pack, I mean put the stand in between the bag and the shoulder straps and all that. Yeah, I think you're actually able to deploy wings and fly with this thing. I'm not sure. There's a lot of features here. Nickname. We couldn't call it the flying squirrel then the Yeah, the cargo boxes. I mean, if you like to carry a lot of cargo, that's what it's for. Um, if you're not, you know, if you don't want to carry the stand in a lot of camera guys are liking this one too, because there's lots of pockets for tall lenses and things like that. Um, so it's twenty cubic inches, um is what is total capacity is plus Like on the top of it now too, you could like do a your bibs in your jacket strap to the top and the bottom of the pack. And I know, like one of our field testers is U extra large and another double extra large and even with a larger capacity. They run out of space with all the stuff they brought. So we added these straps to the top and the bottom, um and so, and you can hang it from the lid and then if you want to run sticks on the sides, the wings are there for running sticks or you can got a rifle in them. The stand systems way easier than the old tool bucket to to be able to pull apart and put back together. Um. So it's essentially like a couple of buckles on the side. There's no zipper to go around. You run the straps right through the stands. We'll have some help to videos online, not just to show you through how to use it, because a lot of people will get this pack and like every time you use it, you'll find probably find like a new thing associated with it, um and uh and so. And then it has these all problems that kind of go back together, like the reflective ports, so if you're wearing a headlamp, you can see where where the pieces go in. Um. So you can put it back together in the dark really easily. Um. But the idea behind is you're doing hanging hunts. And then I've even used it for saddles. So I put my sticks in the side, and then I put my like a little patherned platform right on the back of the pack and like only do one strap through it, and then the bottom of the key side kind of nest down under the hypelon strap. Um. But that's that's you know, it's built off like a pack chassis like for carrying like frames, like big game stuff. Uh. And so with that same kind of thought, but I've I mean I've carried multiple stands and multiple sticks just trying to ruin the thing earlier in the season. Um. And you know I would recommend that you carry two platforms in and eight sticks, but I've physically done that. Um. You know, like I'm like, I gotta use this. My buddy wants to hunt near me over water like a wall over elk and and so like I was like, I'll talking too, stands worse and two sets of sticks. Let's see how it goes, and OpEd them out when we went So, yeah, that's cool. So we actually had a guy who had some questions about the packs, and specifically he wanted to talk about the shoulder straps. You don't know if there's any changes to him because he says, the tool bucket frame is a little small for him, and it puts a lot of weight on his shoulders and not as much on the waist build. Yeah. So, uh, the waist belt is actually like a real like we worked with pack designers that you know, they've been doing this for a long long time. Uh, and they built you know, backpacks for you know, they used to own the backpack rent um, and so we built like the hip belt with like great pad and great ventilation. So in the back of the back now too, it's not one solid piece. There's like channels the channel air out. UM, so you don't get out of a sweaty pack if you're if you're having to go, everything is available on the right hand side, so your water bottle holder or everything that you need for right hand accesses is their normal for normal users. Um. And then uh also the shouldering system has like load bearing straps, So those load bearing straps will go back up and grab the main compartment of the pack. But then when you're running a stand and stand just becomes an additional frame. You can run them up through the stand and then I prefer to attach them to back to the whole pack and then like lists the whole load up. So these load bearing straps. So the order you go in as waste felt, um, centered chest strap, shoulder straps, then load bearing straps. If you do that order when you put on a pack, it'll carry the load the way better rather than going through another order. Always do that. Set your weight belt, set your shoulder straps and chest strap, then do your load bearing straps last. Cool So, so is the have you used the pack for? Because it's kind of designed with almost like a meatshelf. Look to it when you open it up, and I noticed that there's this kind of blaze orange elastic fabric piece that was in the pack. Um is this like is this pack designed to haul meat out or is that just something that you could do with it? Uh? If I want to, I want to say, if you've got creative, you could probably loads meat out with it. Um to with that that slings actually there to catch the bottom of the teeth. Um. I've not personally done it yet. UM. I have a goal of drive to do that this year. And actually I didn't think to actually do that load the meat out with it. But they can carry all that I carried. I am you know you have to get creative and how you did the strapping. You could probably do like a quarter you know at a time, maybe a quarter and you know the head and the backstraps, but it'll probably take you called a couple of loads with a white tail to do it. Um. The one thing I'll say is, um, that blaze is there. So if you're hunting public land, a lot of times when you put a pack on, you cover up the back of your vest. And so we put that blaze strap in and yours is right since you have a prototype. But the hooks go up inside of the flap and then they wrap around the side and hooked at the bottom, so you can run in with blaze on the back of gear and don't really lose your coverage. Um. And another thing we also come out with here is a reversible rain cover, so when it's raining, there's an elevated to opt to fight side. So if you're in the stand, you put that on. But then when you walk in, you can flip that reversible rain cover inside out and the other side's blaze. Orange's cool. Yeah, that's neat. Um. Yeah, at least it's not bear spray, you know what I mean? Yeah, we we have running I season, you guys have duck and cover. That's right. I think one of the big things about this pack is like, well, one of the claims to famous how many pockets it is? Right? And do you know any pockets this thing is? Think? Is it? Yeah? Twenty two individual storage compartments. Yeah, it's nice. And whenever you were using it, were you using all twenty two pockets? No? But it's a mixing match situation, right. It gives you the options of having, you know, a different partments for different stuff or whatever. Yeah, and you'll figure out the ones that right. The one thing, like I said, if for every eight guys, that's who knows how many different solutions, But it allows you to make a configuration that's right for you. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So the third pack is kind of a returner to the line, right it is. So it's an update. It's in between the two cubic benches and it's just our windows. The old toolbox is now becoming the tool Bucket. And I know that's a little confusing, but I didn't want to give up the name bucket because I thought just to find exactly what it is. So that's that's the reason for that to have too. You had a toolbox and a tool bucket in the same line, right, Yeah, the toolbucket used to carry the stands, but now the cargo box does. UM. But I just love that name so much. So and and it's really going to be similar to the old one, but we did some things, like the water bottle holders are better the old one. You know, you can set it down and might dump your water bottles out. So the containment's better on that UM. It has the top and bottom straps UH, so you can put your your bibs and your jacket on the bottom of the pack. The new UH system for like, if you want to strap a boat to the back, those little hypalon pieces, you can kind of wrap them around the grip of a rifle or muzzleoador or around the riser of your bow and they go back through the little triangles. But they basically has the like third point of contact to coming from the back of the pack. So like the Fanatic pack does, where you can wrap it around and go around your riser or the rifle or your barrel of your gun can kind of like tip tilts the the rifle forward UM has the plaze strap for going into place coverage. Uh. And now the front lid will either raise up or drop down. So like if you want like the old scoop design where you could like lower it and kind of like see what's inside of your pack, Uh, you could you could have that, or you can slip them back it up and have a really compartment if you want to. So, and then if you flip the lid up now too, it's gotten like opt to fate concealment on the entire lid, so it doesn't use that blaque mesh anymore. It uses all OPT todd Nish. So those are some of the changes. A lot of little improvements to like you said, people have been texting me over the years and saying what they like and don't like, and then you just kind of mesh it all together and updated as you go. Sure, Um, so I guess it was a couple of years ago, actually, you guys, Um kind of what your big project wasn't seemed like was to make the gear quieter. And it seems like you have spent a lot of time working with acoustic engineers probably over the last couple of years, but this time it's more about um, the hunter's hearing as opposed to the deer's right. Correct. So we we did a a strategy that we did the stratus this year. And you know that, uh, that product is really designed all about being persatile. You know. The great thing about the stratus is if you if it's like earlier in the season, and especially for the region where you guys live in Texas, like the stratus is probably depending on cold nature, how cold nature are, if you lay your properly, you should be able to get through the entire season with it. Um and so, uh, one thing we wanted to do with the stratus. You know, it's great if you layer it over just a base layer earlier in the season, why it starts to get cold. H. Then you can start to add your insulation to layers under it. If you take like a Celsius midi jacket and put it under the stratus, you know, I can go down into the teams with that. Um. You know, maybe in the South I can get down into the twenties comfortably with it, just because of the humidity level. Um and so. But then it has a hood that's removable, and that's all for versatility, because some people really love a hood. Some people don't um. I've always struggled wearing a hood in the stand and the reason for that is when I put my hood up, I feel like I've lost um the ability to hear what's coming around me. I felt like I've cut my ability down. I know a lot of people complain about that, even like beanies, like I do this, or I never cover my ears, or I got one site flipped up if it's really cold, and then I'm flipping back and forth, you know, just trying to leave myself to hearing. And so what the idea behind this with the stratus was how can we allow hunters to be able to hear your coming while they're wearing the hood or beanie. So we've partnered with James Black, who's an acoustic engineer. He's like the guy if you go, you know, into a concert venue, or if you're have an office building and you want to understand what's going on with this down or the acoustics, you know, you'll hire a person like him. And he's also an instructor here at Montana State University. And so he and I took some leaves that we brought back from Georgia and some dirt and we simulated like a hoof crushing those leaves to get the frequency of the sound that was made. And then UM we also partnered with a group at Gore whether you know it or not, like like Gore, it can be used in like headlights of cars, or it can be used in a lot of like mobile phones. And that's the reason you can drop your phone in the water and it doesn't die anymore like it used to in the old days UM. And that's because there's like a lament and inside of their Gore membrane UM. And the reason that's in there is the phone heats up, it's got to let vapor out. But it's but if you drop it in water, doesn't want to let the water in. So that's the reason it has that that for transferring vapor inside of a phone or even headlights because as the heat up, it's got to let vapor out. And so there's a group at Gore that their whole old job is understanding and user hearing because that's you know, there's lots of you know phones that are sold with this and the headphones that are sold with this technology, and so they want to understand how what's going on UM, and so there's this thing called a head and Torso simulator. If you look at like a BMW, A lot of times they will set these inside of like a BMW so that they can understand what's going on in the acoustics of the car. So it's like a head And the nickname is for it is Mr Hats Head and Torso simulating Mr Hats. And you look at him, I'm surprised they put a nose on him. Yeah, he's got a nose, he's got eyes, and he's got like a real like a like it's a synthetic ear, but it works like a human ear. And so what they do is, you know, we would play like a white noise um and we would measure what's called you know, acoustic loss or insertion loss. And so what we could do is go through and take a bunch offerent types of textiles, build different hoods and beanies, put it on Mr Hats and then measure what type of textiles allow for the most acoustic transparency. And what we learned was totally fascinating. Uh that It's like I didn't just stick like mesh hearing ports in this thing. Like we went through and like did double layer polar Tech Alpha because we learned, like the that tech type of installation was extremely acoustically transparent, so we could double up the layers for actually additional warmth. And then you know, we were digging even on the types of mesh that we were using, you know, and the types of textiles were using, on what would allow the best amount of sound to come through. And ultimately what we wound up doing that is after James ramd Us through an algorithm, we learned that that's four times the distance uh improving it here and so like if you were wearing the old hood and could only hear dear like twenty yards, this new one should a lie, you'd be able to hear it at eighty yards, or it's three times as loud at the same distance. So you know, if you could hear that dear at forty yards with the old one, and you could hear at forty yards with the new one, it would be three times as allowed to you. So you'd be more likely to pick up on it. And we've all had that, you know, is it a squirrel? Is it? You know? And you can kind of tell over time as you learned as a better hunter, you know, the weight of it as a noise. But that can make the difference because I've had the year come right under me and before I could get up and set like the shot opportunity, that shot windows gone, and like I'm like, dang it, you know, And so this might allow you those extra couple of seconds. Yeah, what you're saying is trying to make it easier for guys to kill deer and look at their phone at the same time. That's exactly right. Yeah, that's uh, it's you just proved that you're a better hunter than me, because you're like, you know, as you get better at hunting, you can tell squirrels are not dear, and I still not at that point. So sometimes yeah, yeah, there's a different way to it. It's like a different cadence. And uh, you know, but I remember when I first started hunting, when this team, I was like, you know, you'd always feel like, oh, yeah, oh that's a great squirrel. And a couple of years ago, I actually actually, let's see, it was, yeah, not this year, but last year, I um was, I was in the like if it's brown, it's down kind of game at late in the season, and I hear something early in the morning, and I mean I'm at this creek crossing, like if it's a deer, it's coming through right beside me, and uh, I'm like, ah, that's definitely squirrels. And of course that happens. The same scenario you're talking about is like the deer is there and you're all of a sudden not ready for the shot window. And I didn't get a shot. So unfortunately I did the wrong thing. A mistake to squirrel or a deer for a squirrel instead what happens when your deer a small Okay, that's the southern dear. I'm from the area. Yeah, I have a buddy that I remember we were in college when we were hunting and uh, this is the worst squirrel story. But we had like a target duck in there we had nicknamed Julio and um and we were going after him. My buddy Keyan was in in the stand and there's a squirrel that just gets up and starts parking like relentlessly at him. And like so Keia would always carry one of the uh, the the heads that's for squirrels. But basically Judo ticks on the front of his in front of his uh, one of his eras in the quitters, and like he's like, all right, this is then it's still a legal squirrel season. But I'm gonna I'm gonna take the squirrel out. So he like draws back, shoots, hits the squirrel, just like laughing to himself, you know, and then he looks over and Julio is standing at like eight yards flicking at him. Oh no, instead he just like turning. Actually his life forever and we've never killed that deer. We don't know what happened that he was the only one to actually see him in the daylight, Like he was just looking at me just kind of like shook his head and like turned him like walk away, like like didn't even like he didn't run away. You just kind of like, no, I'm out of range, I'm out of here, And it's terrible. That's funny, man. I've I have some similar stories like that over the years, but uh, um, you know, nobody really like wants to hear those too bad, uh, because they're mine. Arm is funny is that It's just like I was like looking at my phone or I was just laughing with my buddy, and then I turned around and there's a deer blowing at me. You know, it's it can happen, man, It's and I guess that you know, being able to hear better is a is a big part of it. Like Casey has really good ears and so, uh, not just good looking, but also good hearing, and so anyway, he's he's always like, man, you hear that, and I'm like no, and then you know, a minute later I'll hear it or whatever. I guess involved in a few more rock concerts to Yeah, that's probably that's the problem for me. But you know, that's hearing is a big deal, man. It's a it's a good way to to pick up on a deer before it sees you, man, especially because a lot of times you can uh, you know, you can't necessarily see a deer unless it's in a in your view, but you can hear dear from all different directions a lot of times. But um, I did have a question for you about Mr Hats. Um. You know, I don't want you to get too political here, but do you think that people could learn a little bit from Mr hats these days? I mean, it seems like the guy knows, you know, when to listen and not to speak well my wife should tell you that, you'd be like, you know what, I think if I talked to her about Mr Hats, You'd be like, I think you need to be a little bit more like Mr Half and do a little more listening a little less talking. I think a lot of people can learn from that, for sure. Yeah. So, um, I'm pretty excited about this whole aspect of you know, added hearing or whatever with the hood on, because uh, with the big ears comes cold ears, you know, so you kind of want to be able to have your cake and eat it too. There. But one of my big struggles honestly, um, well, I don't actually wear a hood a lot of times. I'll usually go hoodless with a beanie. Uh. We call them to boggins down here, but I think that's a misnomer. Uh Toboggans are actually like a sled or something. But that's what I ran the same thing. I moved up to what's from the south, and like I was like, oh, yeah, to a boggin, never, like that's a sled. Like yeah, it's just you know, I don't know why in the Southern area, but like you had grown up calling boggins. Yeah, maybe it's because you wear one when you're on a toboggan. Yeah, yeah, I don't know, but uh, the problem I have is that like when I turned my head if I have a hood on, it's like I can't hear a thing while that motion is happening. You know, it's like the whole time, did y'all do anything as far as uh, you know, improvements are trying to make that be less of an issue. Well, the one thing is the textile that's in that it's really great for that. But the stradhood was already built really great for this. So even another problem was like you're that head turning or even having it on, you lose your peripheral vision. So if you look at the way that hood is shaped, it kind of is sculptured where it's keeps that that vision for you. But then if you sent it around tight in the back and the way that it's shaped, there was a lot of work we built into trying to keep that kind of a snug bitting so there's as little movement as you can. The textile can make a difference, but the to act there's not much you can do. It's like if your ears turning and sliding across that textile you're gonna make, You're you're gonna hear things, and so that's why you want to do the best that you can for trying to minimize that movement or that sliding motion. Yeah. I think I had one of the original U Strategy jackets, and there's been like there's some changes at least the ones that you sent us, uh from what I had. So let's talk about a little bit. Uh. This one's got the harness um cover things so that you can take the jacket on and off without having to remove your harness pretty much. You know, it looks about the thing right now. And then you also have like the quiet snap buttons so you can take the hood on and off correct and so the hood's removable. So people that are just like adam't you know. I think it's only about like thirty percent of guys that I've interviewed have been a good guy. Uh, And so I think roughly six seventy percent of people still take their hood off or don't put it on. I don't know if you're kind of informal surveys and told you that, but then um, but you know, let's survey the three of us and see who where's the hood um? And then not normally yeah, I'm not either. I wear uh yeah, I wear one of those um. Not to steal the conversation here, but just real quick, I wear one of those uh you know, like the fishing guys wear that gat yeah, net gator or whatever that kind of but a thin one and it works for me usually pretty well. Yeah, And I I've found that that's just you know, it's also personal preferences. But the women's like fanatic example, has a wood like I asked and did some research on this and it was literally like close to a UM. So yeah, so that's why the hood is from the lobal um for people that don't want that, and the constant connects. They're like if you wearing a shoulder not like the saddle folks, you won't even care about it being there. But we all wear shoulder mounted harness others at some point, you know, for hunting traditional tree stands, or we should be wearing a harness um. And so you know, that was a personal pat project of mine because I always found it very frustrating even with like harness boards and jackets, I was still having to disconnect from the tree and if I wanted to technically do it right, I had to throw my minments back around the tree. Um. And so I know somebody that fell out of a tree and broke his neck and spent like several months in traction, and so for me, it's like it can happen. And so that's why those are starting to get incorporated into uh. You know a lot of the jackets as well. Um. And then there's a one of our ambassadors. His name's rip Max and uh, and he was like coming to me and he was basically saying, look, all your jackets like have like grunt to holders in the cold weather season stuff. But I'm normally wearing stratus right and heated the right and I don't have a place to keep my grunt too. So that's why on the shoulder is like kind of a little doll, really stretchy sleeve. And the idea behind that is if you want to put your grunt tube right there on your shoulder, you can reach over and grunt on it. One little trick that I found on this too is while you're at full drawl, if you want to stop a deer and you're not comfortable doing them, you know that you know, you can just reach over while at full draw grunt stop the deer and and I've actually done it and it does work, um, and so you can you can use that, you know. So for people that aren't don't want to grunt, yell, hay or whistle, you can run I have held at you. Yeah, that's better the old remember that the thing that they made that was like surgical tubing that hooked up to your grunt calls, like six ft long, you know we're talking about it's probably fifteen years ago. They were advertising before out or TV. But it's like a tubing that you would run down inside your garment and your grunt call would be like down here in your pocket and you kind of you know, move your head around and blow on it or whatever. So this is a much better system than that. Yeah. Yeah, I like, you know, you won't even notice it if you don't need it there. Um, But you know, it's nice to have a grunt tube sitting there and you know, and just be able to reach over and hit it, you know, and it's just it's sitting there, but it's out of the way when you don't need it. So yeah, you guys have a lot of options, man, I can. I can tell you put a lot into the design man, and we appreciate that. We appreciate all the all the prototypes. Man, it's cool to get this stuff and use it and use it and check it out and and you know, uh put it to the test man, And we're gonna do some of that this fall for you. Where are you going to put these and other prototypes to the test this year? Well, what are you gonna see what this travel situation looks like? So, um, Canada is gone, I think, but uh um, you know, well we'll see. I've got some local spots here in Montana. I'm gonna trying to do a drive line, but um, you know, we'll we'll see what the situation comes later on this year. With our travel situation, we've got a lot of restrictions right now where we can't can't go still for work. So yeah, I got you. Yeah. We uh. We hung out with some military guys recently and they were in the same boat. They had to get special permission just to go scout some public land with us, you know. So it's crazy times. Yeah, it's it's It sounds like this fall could be interesting for for a lot of traveling. So I don't think within the States it's going to be too bad for people that um are uh able to move safely and do that. So well, the good thing about being in the woods is you're pretty pretty socially distant usually, so you know, yeah, anything about white tail hunting, Yeah, that's the great thing. I was duck hunting. Everybody's bake in having a good time talking. It's like if you're on whitetail, is like you barely and even talk the guy next to you if he's kind of but it's pretty a solitary event. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, uh, okay, real quick. You also said there was something like an improvement to the equinox line. Is that right? We added, so there's kind of uh it's called the equinoximitty pant um. Uh. It's essentially a very high gauge berber on the inside, uh, smooth faced, kind of a conformed fit. Just a really good pant for flattering if you like, are aware of the heavyweight thoutum. It's like that on steroids. Um. And so the good thing I like about is it tucks nicely inside of tall boots um for colder weather hunts. Um and uh and so you can wear it in stands. So it just gives you another option other than just the heavyweight or the idea behind the MIDI name as it's kind of like a season extender, so like you have the Celsius Media or the Equinox Middy and they're like they can under something like the Stratus or your other ones like as a mid layer and their season extenders. So you might get an extra twenty degrees by by doing that with with those products. Um and So that's just a really good one. And a good thing is you can wear it in and it's not like you'd be walking in with like your heavyweight bottoms, like looking like you're walking in your under ruff that you know has pants. Yea, be bad. You know, really dedicated folks walking you know with their lightweight base layers on. But most people don't tend to go in you know, in their in their pants and there in their basse layers. Yeah cool. Uh. Well, is there anything else that we missed that you'd like to hit on? No, we covered covered it at all. But you know, everyone out there, if you've got questions, you know, customer service is always there to help. A really good team. They all actually hunt. So when you call someone, um, we actually got to see you know, kind of that that little area of the office there, and don't they have every piece of sick of gear there that they can put their hands on and talk you through it. Right? Yeah, And I'll tell you what that I mean. I've worked a couple of different companies, and that's this is the first company that I've ever been at where when you call in the customer service you're going to actually get somebody that participates in the sport and actually knows what you're going through. So you know that that's a requirement, is to be able to go in and have somebody that can talk through those issues. You know, they may not all be waterfowl hunters, houns oak hunters, but they'll kick you over to somebody that knows that, but they haven't experts into all the different disciplines or pursuits. Yeah, for sure. When we were there, we were playing with that umbrella decoy thing and somebody had got one s Everybody thought it was really cool. You you know what I'm talking about that? Yeah, Yeah, I tell the turkey was one of those Did you really not scared off a bunch of antelopes. Well awesome. When can people, uh you know, get their hands on the new stuff and where can they get it from? Uh? So uh at the beginning of July tenth is when most of the stuff is gonna go live on the website. Um. And then you know, if you know, we'll have information on there. Like I said, there's retailers if you look at our store locators, so you know, finding a retailer in your area, going to see them, Supporting them's great way to do it. I always love for people to go in because they usually, just like our customer service team, have people that participate in sport, you know about the product or trained on the product. It can help you find the system that's right for you. So go in support those folks, um, you know, and so those are great, great ways to learn about the them um after listening to podcasting, going the scene and touch and fill in the product. Um. So yeah, that's how I'd recommend to do it. And then the women's uh will be close year and later in the fall, closer to the cold leather season, UH is when the finact will come out, right when things start to get a little bit colder. Yeah, awesome, well, cool cool stuff, man, Chris. We appreciate your friendship and your positive attitude, and I know that's going to translate to to the fall. No matter what COVID throws at us or whatever. Man, you're gonna you're gonna go out there and put some work in. So we we appreciate the time. Brother. Yeah, well, thanks for having me on. And uh, I wish you all a little good luctant season. I know you'all gonna get on some good years. Oh yeah, well, we appreciate it, man, and we'll stay in touch. Dude, Thank you all. All right, we'll talk to you later. Man. I always loved talking to Chris Dereck. He's a lot of fun and super intelligent, so I always appreciate his time and I appreciate him sending us those packs to try out, guys. In the description below, on this podcast, we're gonna link to our YouTube channel to three videos that we've done all about the new packs that SICK is offering this season. Also down there, we're gonna link to just our general whitetail camos system video as well, because that's been pretty well received and it really explains how all this stuff goes together. Yeah, and let me make a point real quick. You know, we've never been paid by SIKA, and I don't know if they intend to pay us. I don't really care because we're just good buddies with Chris at this point, and um, I just wanted to let everybody know that other than our friendship with Chris, the's our unbiased reviews and we're giving you exactly how I feel about these things. So do go check them out on YouTube. If you go to the website and you want to order one these packs, let him know he heard about it on the Element podcast. Remember to do that, and remember this is your element living in

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