00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, what's up all its people. I'm Tyler Jones and this is the Bad Country many series from the Element podcast Casey fill them in. Since we're diving head first into the back country hunting this season, we decided to call in some help and talk to some experts that know how to crush it in the back country. So make sure and subscribe. And if this is helpful, we'd love for you guys to give us a five star rating and an I to interview. Absolutely. Now let's get into it because I still have a lot of Mountain House flavors to try before September gets here. All right, we've got Jake Morrison with Luks on the phone today. Jake, how's it going. Man? Hey, Hey, having me on here on your show, I'm much appreciated. Yeah, no problem that you were kind of excited to talk to you. You know. Uh, one of the cool things about the podcast world in general is getting to know and talk to people all over the country. And uh, I can say before we started podcasting, like my group of friends and acquaintances, it was kind of centered around pretty much most of the eastern half of Texas, and now, you know, you just kind of end up with friends all over the place, and it's kind of cool where adventure can take you. So where where is lux at? We're located on Olympic Peninsula in Washington State, so that's roughly around four miles west of Seattle, if you want to put it in that perspective. Yeah, okay, Yeah. I did a little fishing last spring around the the Narrows Bridge over there, and uh, I didn't actually have any success, but I saw my first seal, so that was kind of cool. So you know, you gotta take those wins when you get them. But it's a it's a cool part of the country. So is that where you're from. It's kind of that Opie area. Yeah, yes, there, I've been born and raised here. Um. I was roughly in the military for a bit, but then I came back and I don't plan on leaving. Actually, I got you, man, the paradise for sure. That's cool. That's cool country. It's big trees, deer, elk everywhere, and just beautiful stuff man for sure. So, um, is that kind of where you got your first taste of like backpacking adventure, kind of back country style um adventures? Yeah, and then I also my crazy old man he would take us up in the South Cascades all the time, around the Mountain Saint Helens area. So when I grew up as a teenager, I was either in the Olympic Mountains or i'd be in the Mountain Hollens area, but in Washington for sure. Got you. Um My mom was around that area on a family location whenever St. Helens erupted. Were you around back when that happened? Yeah, I was actually just born. They call us Sat Hollens babies. Um, the babies that were born just right before Um it blew. Yeah, man, it's crazy. They got pictures of me with and stuff like that, you know, like little baby pictures. That's cool. No, that's cool. So, um, how did you kind of come into you know, building shelters for a living? Um? Just primarily because I am avid outdoorsman, fishing, hunting, hiking, just like most people. Um. And then I used a dirt bag for roughly three or four years. Um, I got my start as an outdoor blogger and I just ran my own little blog for a while, and that was a big deal back in the day. So, UM, I might be ahead. I'm sorry, I might be unfamiliar with what the term dirt bagging or being a dirt bagger means, can you tell us what that is? Dirt bagging is just a term. They have dirt bag skiers. I'm sure they have dirtbag hunters, hikers kind of like junkie or something. Yeah, are you just work only a minimal amount of time just so you have enough money for food and stuff. Then that rest of that time you're in the back country doing what a lot of people wish they were doing for living. It's called living the dream. And yeah, living the last for sure. No, that's that's cools. And then so you did you did the blogging thing for a while. Yeah, back in the day before YouTube and Instagram and all that good stuff, it was like outdoor blogging was like the thing. Um, and I got my start on that just because I was just sharing it with my family. Yeah, and then I posted some pictures and stuff like that. But then more people just like YouTuber, Instagram, like more people that see your stuff and give you compliments becomes an addiction, like a dopamine thing, you know. So that's where I originally got my start off of that dopamine. Yeah, it's one of those things. It's just hard to beat, right in, no matter if it's uh that kind of deal. If you're just getting at and have an adventure, you know, it's kind of hard to not want to go and do more of that kind of stuff. What do you think was your first mad country experience? UM? Roughly say, for like an overnight would just be like an old man taking us in the Olympics that we would just take like a fishing pole on like a cheap good Will used to and just go up and spend like a little family type trip in the back country. But I learned because he wasn't much of a preparre I've learned to be a more do a lot more research because we would end up in a lot of weird situations, unprepared type situations. But back then it was probably more normal, um to just go and wing in it, don't look at the weather, don't worry about clothing, and just go for it. But then you'll learn like, oh yeah, sleeping on snow and nothing but a bit of a surround wrap really isn't that fun? Oh no, charching start to do a little bit more research about gear and weather and oh yeah, yeah, do you think that the technology of materials and all that has changed more. Do you think like just that, uh, the information side of things has changed more since back then to where like you know that you can actually get good weather reports and good information about trails and stuff. I think it's like a mix of everything as we evolve as humans and in the outdoors. Um. Now with algorithms, they're pretty good about weather prediction, especially in Aria every where it was very rapidly changing, um about forty eight hours out that they're roughly wrong. Um, not because it's all computers guessing it now that's cool. Um, it's uh, it's kind of weird how like I don't know, you almost can take like your personal intuition still and and probably do a better job than what than what you can see on the ten day sometimes, you know, especially if you've been out and you've done it as opposed to just trusting like what some meteorologist from across the country has said about what you've got going on. But um, do you feel like, um that you know, your sleep systems have really come a long way since you know, well ago you said you talked about like the good will chance and stuff that you used to have. Uh, has your your take on sleep systems changed a lot, or you just kind of refined what used to work and made it a better deal. I think that just comes with experimentation and trying different things and figuring out what works best for you. The more time that you're gonna spend in the back country, the more comfortable you're gonna be in those scenarios. In regards to hear um, Like, I went through phases where I carried like a semifive pound pack just for a weekend UM, and then I went to the extreme phase where I was only like a five pound bab way like super minimal. But then I've learned to find a happy balance in between UM. And then when I plan my trips, not once scenario is the same. When it comes to gear um, I'm always I'm experienced enough to know where I can just if it's like going to be this type of trip, I could just grab this bit of kit um. If it's gonna be cold, I can bring extra stuff and being winter gear lift um. So it's not always the same. But like I said, if that just comes with time in the woods, and then you've got to figure out what works best for you, right, Yeah, for sure, man, that's that's obviously experiences a big thing, which is why we're interviewing you experience, UH and some of these other experienced out outdoorsmen and women that we have had on the series so far. Um you know, for for for the listener that doesn't quite know what what all do you guys produced there? It looks um. So our main thing is like a TP shaped tense or pyramid shaped tense um and they're all modular, so that means you can run them floorless, or if you choose, you can use a bathtub floor, which just means that it doesn't have any type of door or bug netting on it. It's just like the floor or um. Or you can clip in a full inter tent which makes it a double wall tent or like a dome tent, so you're essentially just clipping in a dome tent style living area inside the tp um. And so it's very versatile in that regard. UH. And then we because a lot of people requested this through the years, so we started to involve into more of the stove jack stuff UM as that became more of a trend in hunting because of YouTube and Instagram and stuff. People are like, oh hey, I can have a like it's hot tent set up for a fairly reasonable price. And I'm only carrying in UM way under ten pounds for a stove and a tent. UM. I could go out for two weeks and I don't have to be miserable. UM. Especially if you're gonna do a full season of hunt in the back country, that's a good option. UM. And so we decided to carry stoves as well as we evolved as a company, and so many of our customers will get the stove and a tent like a one stop shop to the thing. UM. And then we also carry some tarped options, like one of the tarps that we carry the sixteen foot by sixteen foot tarps, So that's more like a base camp or a car camping or a lot of our customers that do horse packing, we'll get the tarps. Is to protect the stock in the back country. UM. And that's about it. Just tarp stoves and I like keep the stout tips. So what's the advantage of that TP style tent as opposed to what you'd see is more like a domed type UM. The main advantage that would be the wind um shedding um. And then it's important with any tent design, even dome tents, that the rain fly is able to go all the way to the ground, all the way in every direction, so you have three degree protection because a lot of times hunting or any type of winter champion is done in bad weather. Um and so you're able just to batten down the hatches and sit out of storm if you want, UM with a t P or a for S season type tent. Right. So that so um and where you you guys are at, you'll probably deal with a lot of rainfall. And so you know, I think you'd probably be a good guy to talk a little bit about just the importance of keeping things dry and not just necessarily you know, maybe starting with a tent, but then also um as far as packs go, a sleeping bag and all that, Like what does your system look like for keeping everything dry? Yes, So one thing I didn't touch on about the tepee busements is that you do have the option to run it floorless, um and so bouncing back to the rain. So you're actually when you have a flour those tents, you're able to um fully pack up all you're sleeping bag and you're sleeping pad and get ready to go when you're backpacking. And then the last thing that you take down is that keepee shelter. Um. And so that's a huge advantage in that really rainy weather. Um So you're not sitting there packing up all your peer in the rain. And then UM what I tell people when because I had take friends in the back country or whoever, sometimes industute people or whatever, but I said, he plan if you're going to trip and fall into a river. Um So you've got to be that prepared. So pretty much everything is either in a like a trash compactor bag like a back liner or dry sacks um. So that that would be sleeping bag and clothes and cameras. Everything has to be protected because we do. So we are in the west side in Force Washington that actually gets the most rate the lower um. So we got a ton of ring um and so and then layers UM. I always tell people, um, so leave like marino stuff at home when you come onto the peninsula and just govers since that X so like polyesters and basically just fleece and polyester shirts and stuff like that. Yeah, and then have a good pair of three or four pairs of socks, so you're always just rotating. Um. But yeah, yeah, no, that's cool, so on those shelters. Um. So I guess I'm just I need to be educated a little bit more about like how the system works with keeping water actually out from Like I said, you're gonna run a floorless shelter. Um, is it about like site selection or how do you keep water from actually coming in and infiltrating like underneath the fly. Yeah that's a great question. Um. What I tell people as you set it up, like any tent, essentially you want to be on slightly higher grounds. So that does come down the campsite selection. Um. So when all the rain runs off the shelter, it's got to go somewhere. So you wanted to be away through your sleeping area. Um. So I guess you'd be like a golfer and be out there analyzing as the camp making it sure you got the slope right. Um, but that's definitely number one. You hit it on the nail on the head, there wouldn't be the camp site selection. Yeah, with a floor less I got you one. Even I've even had some dome tense and I've woke up before when I was an experience, and I was flooded because I slept at a low point. Um, and you don't make that mistake twice. I don't imagine that actually happened to one of my best friends on Tyler and I, uh, with two other guys were going on alk. It is just a truck camping situation, you know. But we had one of those big tps that you know, kind of like a ten on the bottom with a TP top or whatever. And he was a guy who got stuck in the low spot and it came a flood that night. And Okay, we're on a completely different end of the country than you are, right like you you probably understand the concept of rednecks a little bit. Um, Oh definitely. Yeah. Yeah, I live with them, so we're pretty red nick down here. And uh, his expression first thing you woke up is he said, man, you could have a whole standard croppy in this mud butttle line, in which means a whole school of fish. But it was pretty funny deal. But uh, you know, um, I guess kind of along with that, the concept of just being floorless in general is a little bit foreign to me. I like the idea because yeah, maybe like you're dealing with a touch more I don't know, dirt and in grass or whatever the you know you might be setting up on but you got a tie x sheet or something great ground sheets you lay down, but then you don't actually have to deal with cleaning out the inside. But it just seems like to me that I don't know, critters or dusters and things can get in there. Do you take any preparation for that kind of stuff or do you ever like pile things to the side of the tent to kind of make a good seal along the fly? No, I think in regards to the floor us that think you touched it again that nail on the head where um. One of the major benefits is replenitness actually because you're not tracking stand and pine needles and stuff into your sleeping area, um, and so you're a lot cleaner that way. Another one of the major benefits that is really important touch on would be the weight savings that you get from most floralists. But bouncing back to your question would be I would say it would be area dependent. If I'm going to go in Utah when the snakes throughout and stuff, I'm definitely going to use an intertent because there's people that will be like, oh, yeah, the snakes won't climb in there, um, and your sleeping area and stuff trying to see warm or whatever. But I'm just a little paranoid. I've watched too many Western It's grown up, we're scene with the rattle snake, but when we're out here in the West, we don't have to worry about that as much. The main culprit would be mosquitoes obviously, but they're not around all the time. And then mice. So how I combat that is I try to stay away from designated areas where people set up camp all the time because that tends the mice no, Like, hey, there's a food source for people dropping their crumbs and mountain house or whatever, um, so they kind of horror around that area. Um. But other than that, um, it becomes just like a mental thing. At that point, I think it's the first time you're like, well, this is kind of weird because it's something new. But after you get more hands on time with sleeping flora less or even under a tarp um, you actually sleep a little bit better in my opinion, because you get a little bit of air coming through there, and you sleep better a little cold air coming through at night and stuff. You're not just like trapped and send like a tent capsule you mentioned in your tent. Can you kind of explain what that is and how it works. Yes, So basically a t p um is fully um sufficient by itself as a shelter, but we do have an option where you can clip in or steak in or however wanting to figure it an inner tint, which is uh, let me see how to work this. Basically, it's like a dome tint without the poles, and so it just clips in UM, and then you would have a floor, you would have a bug protection. You would have a zipper door that's on the inside of the tp um and so that would give you that protection from the mosquitoes, my scorpions, whatever. Um. Yeah, and then the tp becomes a double wall tint at that point when you use an inter tint, and then you're going to drastically lower your risk of conversation um, because it comes like a mountaineering at that point in regards to a conversation. I got you, UM. So so you do run it, you know without the entertaining you do have condensation issues. Do you just bawl it up and just go in the morning, or do you take time to try to dry that off with a sponge or something. Um That would be situation specific, but I tend, especially in my climate, is very wet, so I always be proactive with conversation. So even if it's pouring down rain, I'll leave a door halfway cracked just as a caution because I don't want to deal with it. Um. And so if you just plan ahead and with hands on back coountry, you would know like, oh, hey it's dry, we're in the desert. We don't really have to worry about it. Um. Or hey we're in the wettest place. It's pouring down rain for two days straight. I need to be super proactive with conversation and trying to prevent it. Yeah, I got you. But when I get lazy, I would say, if I'm not hunter or whatever, I will wait for the sun to dry if I don't have like a destination. So in a TP tent, uh, you're really just running. You know. It's not like a dome tent where you have like different poles and stuff that kind of interlocking and go together. You just kind of have like a one center pole, and there's kind of, uh, there's a couple options for what that looks like. Can can I explain how that works? Yeah? So the a t P so most dome tents are like what they call a free standing tent, which means that you don't require to put in steaks. It'll kind of even sit up on its own, and then you can just kind of droop the fly over if you wanted, if the weather was good. But i TP is what they call a non free standing tent, which means that it's required to use steaks in to support it. And this the main structure is the center pole that you touched on. UM. With most of our keeps, you can either hang it up from a top loop off a tree branch. If you don't want to have a center pole or UM you can lash two trekking poles or use a single treking pole depending on which TP that you chose, or we offer a dedicated tart pole. UM. The benefits of that is very simple to set up a TP style shelter because you're just laying out the tent, putting a fuse stayson. You put the poll in at the proper length, stick out the rest and you're done and you're essentially you just erect is like a a small cabin at that point, especially if you add a wood stove. Um, so you it's like a mental thing where you're like, hey, I have this refuge, so no matter what happens and outside, if I'm going to be in the backcountry from intertenting period, that I could always come back and have that set up. You double keep warm and dry and all that good stuff cool. So, um, what kind of I mean? I would imagine that you're pretty specific about what sleep being bag you have. With the wet climate that you tend to be in, what what kind of bag are you running? Yeah, so that is a rabbi whole conversation, like a lot of things about gear. But I I run down. Um. Some people would say, oh, hey, synthetics better in wet, but I my philosophy is I protect that down at all costs, So whenever I'm not using it, it's in some sort of either a shell or a dry stack at all times. Um. Because what does happen with down and a wet climate is that the loft, even when if it's just laying out in your tent, there's so much moisture in the air, that will start to absorb the moisture um and then it becomes you lose some of the warmth f isssue. But to combat that, I actually use a really cold sleeping bag. So then that gives myself like a twenty degree um room for air. I hate sleeping cold, so that would be a zero degree for me unless it's summer, is what I use. Yeah, and so how are you how are you protecting the bag in that damp climate? You know, obviously when you're sleeping in it? Um, do you have issues with the with the bag? You know, just condensation and whatever else might be happening in a really human or a wet climate, do you have any issues there? And how you protect it while you're sleeping um? And so again I just be proactive with a conversation issue where I make sure that there's airflow coming into the shelter, okay by leaving the door craft if it's really wet, um, And then I don't have issue. I just like, so what I used when I pack in my backpack is I used like a through Hecker style, which just means you take a trash compactor bag, you put it inside your backpack at the bottom, and then you fill your sleeping path or excuse sleeping bag into that trash compactor bag and then you seal it and push all the air from it. Um. And then when I'm in camp, I used that same trash compactor bag to store my sleeping bag, just loosely loft it and then I helped keep the moisture off um when it's just splaying around when you're out on the day, I gotcha, gotcha? So what kind of pad are you laying that bag on? At? Not um? I try not to mention brands, but for the it's hard to be like a climate sleeping pad because of the cost to value ratio is so good and so like if it's in the winter cold weather, I'll use it just like insulated sleeping pad, but in the summer I'll just use just a bare air pad. UM from them and so they can mail me a check for Yeah, we actually, uh we interviewed Bart Miller from on it and uh so he we'll reach out to him and let him know that he owes you pretty big. Yeah, cool man, what kind of uh, what kind of tracking poles are you using in that system? We actually uh, locks has their own tricking poll that are designed to use for our shelters to their carbon their three ps um. And then they're kind of overbuilt for a carbon pole because it's important with a TP to have a strong pole um since if that pole braces, then your whole shelter feels, and so you don't want to go cheap on that regard um. And then the pole has the ability with an adapter to either extend it to make it longer, or we have an adapter that you can get n act two tracking poles together. If you have like let's say seven foot tall TP that you want to put up. Gotcha, that's a big that's a big team. Now you're talking like a large structure there. I guess you'll have quite a few options. I mean, what's so um not to just go crazy deep into your catalog or whatever. But like for a back country like just for like a general back country, say in this instance, like for a backtry hunt that we're gonna do, We're probably gonna have our own personal tents and you know, kind of store our own gear and our own own shelter. Uh, what's like the good option for that that you'all offer. Um. I would say you would take a look at your heights and then what season you're going to be out in is how I would make my suggestions. But most people are just doing like a light and frost early season hunt would be like a heck Peak two person and then that just sets up with a trekking poll and you don't need to need adapters. I don't plan on really ever spending much time in the snow in a tent. It's just not my thing. I'm not I'm not a late season camper man. I like the truck or in RV or something when it comes to that time period. But you know, like you're talking about those good temperature, temperate times of years, and that's when it's time to get out there and uh and spend some time in a tent. That's you talking to a Texan, right yea, yeah, my marketing guys from often, so I'm pretty familiar with Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know how we are. This is when it comes to the cold, for sure. So uh, in the morning, you wake up and you've had a great night. You don't have bad condensation because you were smart with your little door opening and everything, which you do need to kind of warm up or or you know, get some food in your belly. What does your food system look like for when you go on a back country trip. Yeah, my usual routine in the back country is as soon as I can get up, I actually just go for a little walk and look for tracks or do whatever to kind of get the bluff go that that really helps to keep you warm actually, and then fire up coffee. And then my traditional if it's like a cold weather, I'll just do something party like a old mill or something like that. But in the summer, I don't really care about having hot pains because as hard as it like seventy degrees by the tending to wake up. Um, and so sometimes I even what they do, it's like trendy and hunting right now is like stoveless is what they call it. So you you don't even need a stove and you just have bars and different things that are already prepared. Uh, they can just add water to Man, it just sounds so rough, Like I know that you're saying it's warmer the summer and everything, but there's just something about like a warmer meal, uh that just is kind of good for like your heart and for your mentality while you're you're out there. I just don't think I could do the stoveless thing. Do you do it pretty often? Yeah? But it technically I definitely agree with what you're saying. It's like a boom, a little mental figure that goes off even if you're sore and tired, you have that hot meal in your or a woman. Um. But when you spend enough time in the back country, you just experiment with different things, uh, to kind of mix it up, because if you just do the same thing every time, it kind of tastes u um the excitement and adventure out of it. Oh, I'm gonna leave that's still have a home this trip and just kind of play with that. Yeah, but definitely not for everyone. Yeah, I'm not there yet for sure. I'll just put it I have enough adventure as he is. I don't have to go. How often are you you know, like you got a fishing rod with you and catch a few fish and you're like, oh, I'm gonna tell he's on a stick and you know, or you know, if you do have stow with you or something like that, Like, how often are you are you? Does that, you know work into your your system I guess of eating um, that would be definitely trip dependent. If you're trying to get a point at a point B, you really don't have time to compare fish. But for good capicture reports relaxing then for sure, where you just set up a base camp, you just go on fish. That's like you're that's the goal of the trip. Um, So you can definitely, I don't bring food or excuse me, I don't like leave food at home and saying like, oh hey, I'm gonna catch fish, because that's a bad idea. So it's kind of like a topper. So you can use that fish meant to add to stuff that you already have. Yeah, if you had someone on you, you can throw some fish in there. Yea, Yeah, something sounds pretty tasty. It's funny the combinations you can come up with when you spend a little time out there. You know, like we're talking to somebody earlier. He was saying, uh, they you know, combine ramen in instant meshed potatoes, and it's like pot palm. Like uh, it's like that, it's not you know, but I can just think of stuff like, for instance, I love the the pre made bacon peanut butter sandwiches. I do that all the time, and that's like something you don't eat at home. But something about like that fat and that protein in the back country really just man, it just hits the spot, you know. But it's just not something that you you do as much in your own kitchen. But yeah, definitely, even just like an Oreo cookie at that home, it's kind of processed and with them, you're in the back country. You could charge one cookie your body of fox for Yeah, you can be making money on these trips. And come on, that's what I'm talking about. That's what he does when he saw about you know, from point A to point B. He's going to different camp sites and he's like the distributor of the Oreo cookies. It's like a dealer. We don't know anybody there, we can't look. Oh that's cool. So um, you know I think, um, I think of you know, I kind of want to continue with this motif just a little bit here staying dry and UM, I have a guy that I spent some time in British Columbia with that has tried a lot of different waterproof, high end gear and as far as you know, staying waterproof while out being active, What kind of what kind of jackets and pants and and even boots, you know, what are you using there? Um? Usually I just bring like let's say it's miserable weather at late season, It'll be like a bass layer and I'll do like sometimes three mid layers, which usually are just different layers of fleece, and then I'll have just like a lightweight hard shell that I put on the outside of that. But essentially in this climate, in my opinion, there's no gear that could withstand it. Um. So you can have like a eight hundred dollar jacket and it's gonna went out for sure, and so you just kind of have to accept that. You kind of get wet. Um it becomes like a mental thing. And in dry clothes, so when you get to camp, is all protected in a dry sack. So there's something really important and huge to that where no matter what happens, even if you fall on the lake, you're able to get into your tent and put it on all these perfectly dry clothes um and warm clothes. So that's huge. Yeah, So when you go to when you go to change that out, like you set up your tep tent and you get up in there and hopefully it's a one man and you just like stripped down naked and sit there until you draw it for like twenty minutes or how does that look? You know? Yeah, that's where it falls back to my suggestion on leaving Marino at home. Uh a polyester whashu you dry as you're wearing it. Um, even if it was so cold wet, if you just keep wearing it, um, it'll dry out pretty fast. Yeah. Sounds uncomfortable, but efficient. I suppose I don't know that sometimes. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I guess that that's kind of almost what I'm learning from you is that it's not about trying to stay dry. It's about having what it takes to dry out. And that's what's gonna matter more. Because you're like, it's inevitable, right, the rain is just inevitable. It's gonna happen. But but having the stuff that will help you survive through that and then dry out later is what's gonna matter more, definitely. And then I even when I was a rookie, we're just go practice in the yard in the worst rain possible. Um. And then that kind of likes develop the confidence of like, oh, hey, I'm not going to melt away if it starts raining on me and my shirt just wet. Yeah, but that's something you definitely have to build towards. And then it falls back on having that insurance policy in your drysack. So no matter what happens, you stay safe. You can put I'm dry clothes, yeah, yeah for sure. What about um on the lower end of things, what about your boots? Um? So, I keep it pretty minimal when it comes to footwear, even in the snow. So my thing is because I used to wear like a dinner waterproof and no matter what, your feet are gonna sweat and then you're gonna have wet socks no matter what. Um. So on that theory, I go fully breathable um, and so you just embrace getting wet, but then they dry out fast and then I fall back into that synthetic which your feet will actually dry the socks as you're walking or whatever. And then I just keep like a dry pair in my dry sack with all my other clothes. So when I get the camp, I can put on that bam perfectly dry, warm, soft um and then I'm good to go. So I know, well, like you said, you don't want to talk brand too much, but I'm trying to envision what type of shoe, shoe or boot you're talking about. Can you kind of tell a little bit about like that synthetic breathable and so you just want to look for something that didn't have like a lot of foam on the upper hum and then it has a plenty of mesh, so it'd be like or something like that, um a trail runner would wear. Yeah, I got you, like a Solomon or like a Vibraum sole or a super drippy Fibrum soul, but then the upper has a lot of mash so your feet could breathe got you? Yeah? Cool? Do you? So? Do you uh, when you're talking about getting back to camp and swapping out for a dry pair, do you keep like a pair of Crocs or a camp shoe too in your pack? Yeah? Definitely. I UM just put on like a sandal or anything that's light and cheap. A lot of the times that you find like you can go to the because essentially you're not like putting that much restaurant, so you can just buy anything cheap at that point because you're just lounging around, right like the only back country thing that is a lot and cheap. Usually a lot means expensive, but in this case is the one thing. Yeah so unless they call it hunting sandal, oh yeah, yeah, then it's gonna go on it. Yeah. So you know what what about you you would mentioned that you know, your huge socks would would help your shoes to kind of dry out. What what is what sock? What's the sock material? I guess it in the socks that you're packing. So you can just use like a wool, depends on the season, um or in the summer, I'll we'll do it like a marino sock um into like a wool or just a polyester. But what I tell people, especially if they're just getting into it, has become like a label reader of all clothing UM. And so what I used to do when I was a dirt back I would just go to the good Wheel and you can find all sorts of stuff in there UM and you just start reading the tag. And so what you're looking for is polyester UM. You're not looking for like Spandex blend or like um like blend or anything like that. You wanted to be a hundred percent synthetic could in that regard, And so before you buy any gear, definitely know what the material UM is made out of. And I have to actually notice that in a trend in hunting industries that keep the price down, they start to blend it with other things UM to make their margins UM. And so that's definitely a huge tip for hunters is do your researchs call customer service or whatever when it comes to hunting gear and figure out like is this a percent marino? Is this a polyester? So I feel that's really important. So I would imagine with in a wet climate, with your feet being wet quite a bit, if you didn't have the right boot or shoe, you can easily wear a hole in your foot. And so that kind of brings us to this question that I've asked a few people UM in this series, but what's in your first aid kit? UM? So my personal first dick kit would be depending on the only thing that's a variable would be tweezers if I'm going into the desert because for the cactus. But other than that, it's just like I take a first big kit that you buy, like let's say on Amazon, and I'll just go and field strip it. Down because a lot of two times they just put filler in there. Um of all these things, So I'll leave those things at home and only bring the essentials, which would be like blister protection. And here's a hot tip on that is super glugal, like the crazy glute. That's your number one blister um prevention right there. As soon as you start getting a little red hot spot that you feel it, you stop, kick a break, kick your shoes off, and just put some of that crazy glue across the red hot spot. Let it dry, and that blister is done. At that point, you don't have to worry about it anymore because you're essentially just forming a scalp ye. Dude, It's it's crazy that you it's it's you know, it's crazy that you mentioned that because and I should have thought about that by now. I'm a guitar player, and like I've known forever. You know, uh that when your fingers start getting to the point where they're really tearing up and hurting, like, put superglue on the ends of your fingertips and you have no like you can't. It's crazy, like you you will be hurting like NonStop. You put crazy glue on there. And you can play forever, you know what I mean. So that's a good tip, man. I don't know why I didn't think about that. I didn't know that was into the guitar industry. That's really interesting. Yeah, I've been using that for about five years in all seasons and it actually hasn't failed me yet. So and I've even fixed people's um I don't want to say gashes, but you know, like bag scrapes and stuff where it's like bleeding. But I'll just put it in the back country. I'll just put crazy gally right over where I got that idea is they called liquid stitches. There's like a medical form of crazy gluele that they use liquid stitches, So if somebody needs like emergency stitches, they put this. Essentially it's just crazy glue, but it has difference ingredients, I'm sure. I think that's the lack of one ingredient in there is the only difference, I believe. But that's some some ingredients by California thinks is poisonous seconds to people. One of those kind of deals, are they? So yeah, that's cool. Anything else going in that pack? First take kit. I don't like to get hooked on pain killers, but I just probably keep one in there for like all out emergency because you're like shadow your leg or something. Um. But then um just like an ivy profian and then like scrapes types of situations, and then it isn't a bad idea to put like some sort of gods in case you did have bleeding, you know that you can stop that, um and make sure you have something for a tourniquet and stuff like that, but a lot of times that could be used with the belt or a handkerchief or something like that. Essentially, if it's something really serious in your fifteen miles back, um, you're not gonna be able to stop it. Um, So you just kind of have to when it comes down to prevention. So you just have to be extra conscious and know like you've got to be self sufficient that an ambulance is going to run out and grab you. Um, they've got to be prepared for that scenario. And then um, take your easy, don't try to be superman. Yeah, yeah, there's no there's there's times to be tough and there's times to just be sensible, right, And I feel like safety is one of those things that you need to be pretty sensible long um. So you know you're talking about like medication, painkiller and stuff like that. You don't want to end up being in the back country where you end up really stick to your stomach and with ardia or something like that. So what about your water purification system? Are you like a pump filter kind of guy terrapen or what are you using? Well, here comes another plug and I'll wait for my check. I'm a long time believer. Those Sorrier squeeze is what I use even when I'm in the desert, like a utah or whatever. Um, And then recently I start using because you can't overhydrate, especially in the summer. There's a name for that I can't think of. It's like hyper whatever. So basically, if you don't have enough salt to water ratio that you can get really sick. And then I've had that actually happened. So I'll do like salt and potasy them capsules that I got off Amazon that I won't name, and then for really hot long trips, I'll actually bring these drops, which essentially it's like Gatorade without all the extra filler. It's just like a concentrated drop for electro lights and I'll use that uh um, and then that helps also through my utah or something where the water tastes terrible compared to us. Um, it can kind of cover up that nasty tannan out type taste as well. I got you. You know that saw your thing. Uh. I think that might be like a West coast kind of thing, because every person that we've talked to on the western side of the Rockies has probably used to saw your filter. And I've done the Stapen thing and give bit, but I'm gonna I think that saw your thing is neat because I like the idea of just being able to collect dirty water real quick and then filter it later. It just seems very efficient. Yeah, definitely, I got it. Back in the day I used to really care about my um, young and stupid. You can just scoop scoop the dirty water and you can keep walking. Um, so you're able to be like super efficient and you're not distracted. And I think that covers or comes back into hunting show um because when you're pulling your mind out of what you're there to do and you're worried about pumping water and doing all this, I think that does take away from the hunting experience. Yeah, and and again they can send me a shack. We'll click your address at the bottom of the league and they they can get there easy. So we've talked a lot about all the different components. But sooner or later, you gotta put all this stuff in a pack and put it on your back. So what are you looking for in a pack that's going to serve your needs both as a backpacker and then as a hunter too. Yes, some obviously hunters, especially if your backpack hunt, think you need a frame because you're going to be carrying out me hopefully. Um. And so that's where the hunting world and the backpacking world deficiate because most backpacks you would find, like an R E I or something like that, they have like a thirty five pound net weight that you can carry with them. Um. And so do you definitely do your research and what's most important for you. What I've actually found, and I've owned several of the hunting brands um systems, is that there's actually no perfect system. So I would say go on YouTube, read reviews, and then figure out what's best for you, especially when you're new, you have no base to kind of make that decision on UM, and I would say, then it becomes like price driven um. Like anything, you have to figure out like okay, what's my budget, and then I'm gonna make this work. I don't essentially need a seven pack to go on my first hunt m HM. As a budget option, I actually tell people that you can just buy the frame, buy the mean holler and many companies sell that separately without the backprack, and then you can use like an oversized dry sack, or you can just use any backpack at that point. Like let's say you go down to that it will or on Crazy List or whatever, you buy it like a cheap Osprey backpack. We'll say you can go and cut off all the shoulder straps, hit and all the unnecessary stuff, and you can use that as your pack bag because you're essentially just strapping it on like you would do a hind quarter. If that was a good explanation, No, yeah, that's cool. I don't know if Osprey is gonna send you a check like the other Now that makes that makes good sense, And I haven't really thought too much about like the budget option, but that's a that's a cool way of putting it. And you know you're talking about hauling meat and stuff. Um, I tend to think about like heat being an issue with meat in the back country and trying to make sure you're just pating heat off the meat well. And uh, but I also know that like moist environments are super conducive to you know, bacteria and other things like that. So are there considerations that you take, like in that you know that uh, Pacific Northwest environment that maybe other people don't really think about when it comes to like, you know, that type of environment being better or for worse for meatcare. Uh, definitely at all environments these considerations. Personally this early season, it would just be like it geems that bag that you can keep the flies off of, that's like your number one things. Yeah, having like larg and stuff on there and then keeping them out of direct sun. So try to find a shady spot that you can go hang up your meeting while you're still processing it. So like let's say we'll get a hind quarter off, We'll go and get that in shade as soon as possible, and try to be like proactive in that regret. Um, late season, it's pretty cold in the Pacific Northwest. It's like it is web but roughly we'll say in late season it's around thirty eight on the average. Um. You just you don't have to worry about the bugs, you don't have to worry about the sun. Um, so it's pretty because it is cold. Um in that regret. But I would say just keeping it the critters away from it would be another thing, which is you know, always just keep it hung up on something or don't leave it on the ground, and make sure it has plenty of air. Um, so you're not putting like garbage guys or nothing. Um. Yeah, that makes sense. So um, you know when you start trying to uh put that meat on your back to hall out and stuff. You know you're talking about having a frame pack with be able to trap your meat to it and all. But there's a configuration for everything. So just in general, will you you know, meet there or not? Um, how are you making sure that you you're efficiently packing your your pack with all your gear to be able to access what you need, but also make sure that you know your your weight is distributed in the in the right manner. So that would be uh trips specifics, I would say, in situation specific Yeah, so let's say you're only two miles away from your rig. Especially, you can just leave all your backpacking through your back and camp and you can just run your meat only. Um would be an option. Um. But in regards to how you pack, you want to keep all your heavy stuff up against your core on your back. And then when you do your packing, which is really important to be mindful that you want to put your leg your loose I don't want to say loose, but like light and fluffy type stuff like a jacket or something, you want that far away from your back. And so essentially you got all that heavy stuff right up against your frame and then you won't get tutter tottered over by putting the heavy stuff far away from them. If that was a good example, yeah, no, it totally makes do your research on how to properly pack a backpack, but be the best thing that you could do. Yeah. YouTube is a great research for that. For any new person, YouTube can pretty much teach you anything these days, So I know it. I'm a I'm a carpenter by trade, and people think that i'll some might think that I am pretty good at what I do, but honestly, I just watch YouTube videos before I showed the work and that way I know what I'm supposed to do. It's crazy. I mean I'm not a mechanic at all, but I can learn how to about and do anything on my truck, you know if if need be from YouTube. And it's just so cool to see some of the resources that we have nowadays. And we're pretty blessed, you know, between like mapping systems and stuff and YouTube and different things, and and smart people like you who have been been out and done this stuff for so long and who are willing to kind of share their experiences and maybe listening that learning curve for the rest of us. So we really appreciate that. UM. What is like if you could give maybe somebody who is new to the idea of backpack hunting UM or going out, you know, into the back country and hunting in like wilderness, aaries and stuff. What would be like one of your top tips for someone who's new to it, looking to get into it and trying to make the best choice as possible. UM, do your research, maybe have a mentor. Like for me, I tend to hang out with people that are like almost double my age because those guys they'll probably not be happy that I called about. They have a lot of knowledge that you can learn off of. And then number one thing I would say is after you do get your ear, don't pull your tent out of the box and go set it up in the backgrountry your first time. So I always recommend to do like a little mock run, even if you have a family at home or whatever, um that you can invite your kids perhaps to join and just go set up your stuff, pack your backpack, put all your stuff together and practice in your yard um and so that your hands are familiar with your gear. I think that's so yeah, because it's like one of the worst things scenarios that could happen is that you're pulling the tent out, you've never set it up before. There's fifteen sideways, wind and rain and you're like trying to figure out how to set up this tent um and that that can go across the board to pack in your backpack or filtering water. Yeah, for sure, all of us live close to put up land and have access to it all the time, and so you could just got to kind of assimilate that a spare and um and what I tell customers just do it your yard, bring your kids out, how Netflix night in the test anything? Um, well, yeah, yeah, no, that's that's a great one. And I think that's something I need to start instituting pretty soon. I need to start making sure I understand especially how to pack the my my backpack to to work well in your back especially while you're doing something an active activity like hunting. You know, it's just kind of a whole new aspect to it. But man, that's that's great stuff. And it's been great getting to talk to you about this stuff because you have a ton of experience and you have a lot to share and we really appreciate it. Um, Jake, thanks so much. Man. If somebody wants to uh learn more about lux and which I'll have to offer, where should we send them? Um, you can search anywhere on the web, including all social media channels, um, YouTube, Instagram, stuff. Just search for Luck having gear and you'll find us or a luck tent l U s C tent Um and we'll pop right up. Yeah awesome, man. We'll be sure and include that in the show notes below. Jake, I can't thank you enough, man, I really appreciate it. Have fun this summer, and good luck this fall. Thank you very much for having me again, and I hope somebody found value out of that man. That was some killer info. If you found this interview helpful, be sure and leave us review below and comment what you thought was the most helpful tip from this episode. For sure, and make sure you also follow us on our social media platforms, Facebook and Instagram, and also subscribe on YouTube so you can see how these hunts turn out. Remember this is your element, living Net. They're waiting a whole lot for that

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