00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwear. 00:00:15 Speaker 2: Listening to podcast, you can't predict anything. 00:00:20 Speaker 1: The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting for elk. First Light has performance apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light dot com, f I R S T L I t E dot com. This episode is gonna be called muzzle order blues. I have, well, yeah, unless Seth's trying to launch a new show called Tain't Talk but because he's been listening to a lot of health and wellness podcasts. But mussloader blues because once again I have failed to uh get it done, as they say, with my muzzloader. Yeah, I just don't have the skills man, Like you know a tool. I'm a rifle man. Let me the kind of center fire. 00:01:20 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's got to be similar to like archery, Like you're not getting any further away than you would in archery, and you got it, you got close. 00:01:29 Speaker 1: But archery you get to you get to hunt before the gun hunter. Archery you get first cracks and mussloader. You get last cracks, meaning people been terrorizing these port animals, and then you gotta you try to further antagonize them when they're kind of tuned into the what's up? 00:01:49 Speaker 2: Yeah archery, all your arrows work too, and yeah it's going. 00:01:55 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that the boat's going off when I let her go, she's going, she's going. Yeah. A lot of stuff like I wrote in with a business idea from a podcast, and I get a lot of these, but this one I wanted to His name is Brian. I just wanted to get you guys feeling on it because I'm having a hard time understanding it. 00:02:18 Speaker 2: I have. 00:02:20 Speaker 1: I didn't invent this, but if you have a bill cap on, I'm gonna put my bill cap on. A demonstrator had my buyos too. 00:02:28 Speaker 2: They're just in your truck, and we got a set of vinyls. Same. You want to grab those? 00:02:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, I canep grabb those set of binyls out of the truck. So here I put my bill cap on and I'm gonna demonstrate a strategy of knock a knocking byo knocking binocular strategy. What I was talking about is that you can use your bill again I didn't. I didn't invent this. It's always then around. But these are stabilizing pinoclars, so it's less relevant here I'm holding the parabindoctors. Let's say these aren't stabilized binoculars. You forew people watching at home not listening when you hold them up. 00:03:11 Speaker 2: Have you ever? You know this trick? Every knows this trick. 00:03:14 Speaker 1: You clamp, You clamp your uh fingers. You your ratchet your binos. Where's that camera? You ratchet your bino's to the bill of your hat, and if you want to get mega stable, you pull slightly so I'm pinching them. 00:03:42 Speaker 2: M hmm. I like to get the hands. I like to uh, I like to get the hands a little more on the side, like yes, that way, it's like put it's like putting blinders up. That's not the right way to do it. 00:03:53 Speaker 3: No, that is that then you can get all you basically grab it with the binos with your palms. 00:03:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you put all four fingers on your. 00:04:01 Speaker 1: So you're like a dude from college in the nineties, you know when you used to wrap your hat around a beer can. 00:04:08 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, But that if you do that then, especially when the sun's out. Yeah, put your blinders. 00:04:15 Speaker 1: Up, because I run Backstreet boys when it's sunny out. 00:04:20 Speaker 2: He did that. 00:04:21 Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm saying? So the son's over here, I run it like this, right. 00:04:26 Speaker 2: But if you apply to our method, do you want to? Yeah? 00:04:29 Speaker 1: And then I'm boned on this. So then you're see what you're saying. 00:04:32 Speaker 2: You're stable and you're not getting any leak or light leaking inside. Yeah. 00:04:38 Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I can see it a little bit either way. The what I have in BET, I didn't invent that. But what I did in BET was this. I invented the poll, just one. No one had done that. 00:04:57 Speaker 2: There's not a soul in the world that has ever done that. 00:05:00 Speaker 1: Not not. When you put a slight pull for extra stability. A guy heard me talking about this named Brian. 00:05:10 Speaker 2: Okay, slight poll, huh yeah, locks in if you like, I feel like a push would lock in. 00:05:20 Speaker 1: No that it's hitting your eyes. 00:05:22 Speaker 2: Yeah, then you're stable against your face. 00:05:25 Speaker 1: I can't explain it better. Later, this guy writes in Brian, if you switch the letters in his name around, you get brain. He says, I just had an idea. Well, first, he says, hey, Steve. He says, I just had an idea. I heard your podcast regarding the trick. Now listen carefully because I get confused for this. I heard your podcast regarding the trick to hang on to binoculars using the bill of your bill, cap bill of your cap, and he uppercases bill com I thought, why not come up with a strap system. Now here's where you gotta start paying attention. A strap system that goes around the binoculars. Comma, so forget though, I thought, why not come up with a strap system that goes around the binoculars. Comma, hold him into the exact place you want, and a strap then runs over the top of your head and attaches underneath your shoulders. Wow, binoculars stay glued to your eyes. 00:06:44 Speaker 3: Hard to them away, fail to see. 00:06:47 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't want you boys to get uncomfortable. By I'm removing my belt, you're thinking you eat or did something bad, or I'm gonna do something bad. Neither is true. He's saying, Man, there's so many straps. He's saying something to this effect, and then under the under back under my armpits. At that point, I think that's it, You're like, he just essentially would have been this is a business idea. 00:07:28 Speaker 3: Well essentially what he'd piggybacked off of wash kevlar helmet. 00:07:34 Speaker 1: No, he's right. 00:07:35 Speaker 2: Look, yeah, it's almost like almost like a set of nods on help. 00:07:40 Speaker 1: What he's not thinking of is that you can't go about your day. 00:07:45 Speaker 2: You gotta be able to flip him up. 00:07:47 Speaker 1: Yeah, because you can't find like, uh, you'd be tripping over stuff. Yeah, you can't drive to your spot. 00:07:56 Speaker 2: You can't be running around all day on twelve power. 00:07:59 Speaker 1: So any feedback would be wonderful. Keep keep plugging away at it. Yeah. 00:08:07 Speaker 2: I think it's gotta be uh, you know, like your fancy coon hunting hat, it's got the inner liner. Yeah, I think, uh quick, it's got to be something on there that you can flip them up and pop them down. 00:08:20 Speaker 3: I'd pay good money to see Steve roll around the planes and the kevlar with just some nods on it. 00:08:25 Speaker 2: Yeah every time. Yeah yeah, and then if you fall, you protect it. Yeah. 00:08:32 Speaker 1: I was making a I was making an argument. Their day. My boy is, my older boy is tangled up at school and speech and debate class, m h I remember being Yeah, speech and debate is what it's called I went down to the to the orientation with my wife, and when they asked for questions, I was dying to ask a question, but I didn't. And then I told my wife, I said, I'm gonna tell you something, and you're not gonna like take it seriously. You're just gonna you're gonna like be mildly offended, and you're not gonna really listen to what I'm saying, Okay, And I was saying, it doesn't without knowing the ethics of a child, I don't think it makes sense to train them in speech and debate. And I said to her, I had I came up with this slogan, Today's children are tomorrow's enemies. 00:09:40 Speaker 2: WHOA, it's great, so. 00:09:43 Speaker 1: Picture it's great. 00:09:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great. 00:09:47 Speaker 1: This is a mildly and defensible position. But think about it. What I was saying is like, here, you got a whole class from your kids. I don't know what their belief systems are, but but here we are like, like, you donate your time, time or money to train them to be persuasive without knowing what their belief system is. How do you know you're not training someone who would be adversarial to your position? Training them and making them more convincing, thereby creating a future enemy. 00:10:22 Speaker 2: I think that happens. 00:10:25 Speaker 1: I think you would first vet you, you'd vet them to find the ones that you kind of agree with, and then train them one speech and debate. 00:10:32 Speaker 2: How would you vet them? 00:10:33 Speaker 1: And who's the questionnaire? I would do the questionnaire, but that would. 00:10:38 Speaker 2: Be that would be, that would be. 00:10:42 Speaker 1: To you and your belief Yes, and you'd have to try out for speech and debate. And I would accord in and volunteer to come in and be like, yes no. 00:10:50 Speaker 2: To speech and debate. According according to you're right, your wife probably did. 00:10:57 Speaker 1: I told her, and I've yet to have her come back to me with any kind of a reply. 00:11:03 Speaker 2: You'd have to have a board of people who like. 00:11:07 Speaker 1: Then I'd have to be able to vet the board, like uh, I'd have. 00:11:12 Speaker 2: To pick the board. 00:11:13 Speaker 1: Then you know what I'm saying. 00:11:15 Speaker 2: Well, I'm just saying if you wanted to keep it fair, or or you don't want to keep it fair, you just want people to believe what you believe. 00:11:21 Speaker 1: Can I give you a piece of Can I give you some listener feedback about this? 00:11:25 Speaker 2: Yeah? 00:11:25 Speaker 1: This is all tee and up listener feedback. It's a great subject line. Uh, it starts out my three favorite four favorite words. Steve was one correct. 00:11:37 Speaker 2: That's how it starts out. 00:11:38 Speaker 1: Steve is, Steve is one correct about debate class and here's a real life example why dying to know. Yep, Steve is spot on when he says that teaching debate separate from ethics is dangerous. That's not really what I said, but sure my daughter did. It's a state champ debate guy who is a class AA hole when their relationships hours, he is expert at convincing her that the reason things have gone bad is because of her. He never takes responsibility for his actions and makes her feel like shit. His ability to win either side of a debate has given him the notion that he is never wrong because he can always justify his position in his mind and convinces her that she isnt the wrong because he is able to twist the situation and deflect blame back on her. One need this is the letter. I'm still reading the letter. One need to only be convincing in a debate, not ethical, moral, or write, and therein lies the issue. Signed a piste off, Dad, Did you write that letter and No, that wasn't what I was getting at. I was more getting at I don't want to train up by my like these other you know I've worried about, like the whole classroom of kids, like some of them are gonna have viewpoints different than mine, and then they become convincing, And what if they come convince me is something that I don't want to be convinced. 00:13:20 Speaker 2: So you're just you're you're ultimately scared of change. M h m. That's right, Seth. 00:13:26 Speaker 1: Can you can you share your reporting about bear spray? 00:13:30 Speaker 2: Oh? 00:13:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is probably your first piece of original reporting. 00:13:34 Speaker 2: Probably it ain't it's not gonna be I mean, it's not crazy, but well let me tee you up. Okay. 00:13:42 Speaker 1: The other day on a podcast, we had a podcast with a guest who spent their career, much of their career working with grizzly bears and catching problem bears and dealing with catching bears and trying to get people to not have problems with bears stuff like that, and then there we got to do a conversation about bear spray and this guy's long time hunter worked a zwning guide and I laid out to him. Okay, the perennial debate pistol, bear spray? 00:14:13 Speaker 2: What do you like? 00:14:14 Speaker 1: He said, bear spray, and he went on to say, you know, very few people are actually proficient with a pistol, despite how much they might think they're proficient with a pistol. But with bear sprays, you're creating a cloud of spray. I see you, Chili did a little face. 00:14:31 Speaker 3: I just I mean, I would agree with the fact that a lot of people aren't proficient with a pistol, But like, I think a lot of things like one year, what if the wind's blowing in your face and like you blind the bear, but you also blind yourself, or what if you don't. 00:14:46 Speaker 1: Get the bear, because then the bear that's fine. 00:14:49 Speaker 3: But like, I just think that a lot more things can go wrong with bear spray. And personally, I just feel more comfortable with a gun because I mean, I've never had to shoot out a bear, but I've seen videos and I've like read reports like a lot of the bears just bugger off at the sound of a gun. 00:15:06 Speaker 1: I've had him go towards the sound of a gun. Well, I've shot in front of him and then had him go look at where I shot because they saw something move. I think it depends on the person either way. I've shot my pistol thousands more times than I have my bear spray. Okay, you're ready for your reporting though. 00:15:30 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, then someone didn someone write in about assault bear spray for assault. Greg Fonce, who's been on the podcast Greg. Yeah. 00:15:42 Speaker 1: Well Greg Fonce, he's a he's a firefighter, yeah in Sacramento, and he said his experiences with bear spray are not from people carry him around for bears, but it's kind of a thing commonly used for assault and robbery. He says, I bet more people get sprayed by bear spray then bears get sprayed by bear spray. Absolutely true. 00:16:02 Speaker 2: Yep. 00:16:04 Speaker 1: I've had two incidents of getting sprayed by bear spray, not bears. I've yet to see a bear get shot with bear spray. I've seen bears get fired at with guns, but not fired at by bear spray. And I have a couple of times that okaysion to shoot in front of them to try to deter them. 00:16:21 Speaker 2: So, yeah, by Greg writing in about that, that brought up this story that I was telling these guys of there. I live in three Forks, Montana, and there was a bar that back in the summer got robbed during like the evening when it was full of people, and the guy came in and just sprayed everyone with bear spray, took the money and ran out. So while everyone's like blinded and coffin and whatnot, he's pulling money out of the you know, the cash still at large, still the largest when caught them. I don't think they did. 00:16:56 Speaker 1: You know that how they made that Ocean's eleven movie. You could make a really short like Oceans one. They're really short, one of those heist movies where that guy just comes in that bear spray and grabs the stuff and runs out. It would be a short. Yeah, just get it, be like a YouTube short called Oceans one. 00:17:20 Speaker 2: Hopefully you could turn into a full length movie. And that happens in the beginning, and then the rest of the. 00:17:25 Speaker 1: Movie is, oh, just make a part of a movie. 00:17:26 Speaker 2: Trying to trying to figure out who did it. 00:17:29 Speaker 4: Did he recoup the cost of a bear spray because those are kind of expensive. 00:17:33 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how much money was stolen he stole, Like. 00:17:36 Speaker 1: Did they get the bar cleaned out and back in business? 00:17:39 Speaker 2: Yes they did, But I still hear every once in a while, like someone will be like I was in the plaza and my skin got irritated when I was playing the the gambling machines or whatever. 00:17:50 Speaker 1: Really because they're still like, yeah, I can't believe they never caught him. 00:17:55 Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't hear that they that they caught him. Maybe they did, but I don't think so. 00:18:01 Speaker 1: When I was a little kid, my dad was my mom and dad were out to dinner with some of their friends and the other woman besides my mom, right, she had a little thing of mace, and my dad was curious about her some kind of spray and the key chain and he was curious about its range and shot it in the restaurant into a vent Oh, not realizing. 00:18:29 Speaker 2: It's like, uh, you know, it's real strong. 00:18:33 Speaker 1: It's strength, and the whole place got evacuated. 00:18:36 Speaker 2: Wow, did they nose him? 00:18:38 Speaker 1: Yeah. It became a often told story in my family. Yeah, that's probably not a good thing, this guy says this bear spray accidents. Listen to episode three sixty five, and the part of bear spray going off randomly reminded me of being on a caribou hunt in Alaska. My friend Lewis and I come out of the tent and there's caribou on top of the hill outside camp. We grab our guns and packs and head off. That sounds like caribou hunting. Louis is supposed to shoot first. He drops his bag on a tussock. It lands on his bear spray, causing it to go off. It shoots a stream of spray across Lewis's chest, causing him to drop like a rock. Between gas was air. He was yelling for me to shoot the bull, which I happily did. 00:19:31 Speaker 2: Hmmm, nice, at least they got the bowl. 00:19:33 Speaker 1: Another time, I left canna spray in my eighty three GMC pick up after a day hiking in July. Come back out the next morning and the canister had exploded in my truck. That's common. 00:19:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard that. 00:19:45 Speaker 1: Eventually got him clean by stripping all the interior parts out in pressure washing them. I've heard of cars getting totaled. 00:19:51 Speaker 2: From you know I have. I have bear spray in my bag right now because we're in a bury area. 00:19:56 Speaker 1: What are you gonna do get it out of your bag when he comes for you? 00:19:58 Speaker 2: Well, no, I just listen to my story. Okay, it's in my just my Duffel bag. I was gonna I don't know if I thought I needed. I was gonna put it in my little hearts thing. But I have I think at Walmart, I got you know, like pub mix stuff comes into like a plastic cylinder. I have it in that thing kind of wrapped up so it's not just bouncing around in there with the lid on. And that's how I transport it. 00:20:24 Speaker 1: I keep mine in a mini animal can because you can put two or three of them in a mini animal can and it's got a little foam in there to keep it from rattling around. But that way you can cut loose and nothing's coming out of there. 00:20:35 Speaker 2: So if you're gonna have in your car, put it in something like that. 00:20:38 Speaker 1: There are a couple instances where pepper sprays have taken down aircraft, small aircraft. 00:20:45 Speaker 2: I believe that Alaska. 00:20:47 Speaker 1: Yeah, well I'm sure probably, I'm sure it's having a Canada as well. But yeah, I want to cut cut loose in the in the cockpit. So German, you fly with bush planes, they take your spray and they tape it. They duct tape it to the struts on the wings. But there's ben cases like that. And there was an air wreck not long ago where they weren't able to determine the cause. Inside the cockpit everything was orange, but they could never determine. It was inconclusive whether the can erupted upon impact. Oh there's the can erupted and caused the plane to crash. 00:21:24 Speaker 2: Yep, we've been flying in Alaska before where you look out the window and that can start shaking it. 00:21:33 Speaker 1: Shit, that's like that movie Gods must be crazy, remember that movie. All of a sudden, here you are and then here's a temper spray. It comes down. We've been having some discussions. This is more listener feedback. We've been having some discussions about, Well, there's another thing I was gonna talk about, but it's so talked about now everyone I know of sense to me a tragedy. Were in Virginia, a bear hunter. Everybody's seen this. Everybody's seen its near mind. A bear hunter was killed. They shot a bear in a bear fellow ovatry and landed on a guy and killed him. But it's so heavily commented on and reported on and misconstrued. We've been discussing lately when when states he's recip a thing called reciprocity for management purposes around hunting and fishing regulations. An example of what we're talking about would be this, Uh, in North Dakota, you can spear pike through the ice only if a North Dakotan would be allowed to spear pike through the ice in your state or province. You tracking all, let me give you this one. Let me give you an example. This just changed, but let me give you an example. Montana, Oh yeah, I know where you're going with this one. Prohibit non residents from trapping fur bearing animals and not non game. 00:23:07 Speaker 2: Unless their state allows unless. 00:23:10 Speaker 1: No, no, they just forbid non residents. Oh yeah, they're the ones that started it, Montana. They just changed it. But Montana will not sell a fur harvester license to a non resident. 00:23:24 Speaker 2: Oh well, before that, it wasn't me out. Okay, you tell everybody. No. I thought at one point in time it was a non resident could trap in Montana if their state allows non residents to trap there. 00:23:40 Speaker 1: No, because Montana is the one that said you can't. Gotcha, they they they're them Minnesota. Okay, there are certain states that do not let non residence trap fur bearing animals. 00:23:53 Speaker 2: Gotcha. 00:23:53 Speaker 1: Now you could come to Montana trap fox. You'd come to Montana trap kyote because they're non game. But you couldn't trap bid page, you couldn't trap beaver, odd muskrat. Gotcha, fur bearing animals. So a case of reciprocity would be like Wyoming. For instance, Wyoming says, okay, you we will sell a non resident a fur harvester license if that if our residence can buy in their state. 00:24:18 Speaker 2: Gotcha. 00:24:19 Speaker 1: And so it would be that if you lived in Montana, you could not trap in Wyoming. Why because Montana had banned Wyoming people from trapping. Minnesota has another situation like that. That's a case of reciprocity. There's a reciprocity, Like I said, with pike spearing, if you don't allow if your state doesn't allow pike spearing Wisconsin, you can't come spear northeast in North Dakota. 00:24:49 Speaker 2: Gotcha. 00:24:50 Speaker 1: I was a while ago I was musing about whether you would start to use reciprocity against states that are doing bans on certain hunting activities. So meaning California bands bobcat hunting, bobcat trapping, mountain lion hunting, should a Californian be allowed to go like should a Californian be allowed to go to another state and participate in those activities when their state has banned the right. I was just musing about asking this question just to like, you know, get intellectual. You know, the intellectual juice is flowing. 00:25:36 Speaker 2: Fee that was the case. I hope they banned deer hunt in Washington. 00:25:41 Speaker 1: Well, that's where it becomes interesting because if you have, like because you have a lot of states that are becoming increasingly adversarial, you have you have like states that are coming adversarial to hunters and hunters, trappers, fishermen, right yep. And then you know, like Washington when they during the pandemic, they banned fishing by yourself. Like if you had a pond in your yard, you could go out there and shoot golf balls into that pond during COVID, but there was a period of time when you couldn't go there and cast into that pond. 00:26:19 Speaker 2: Yeah, just you know, keeping everyone safe. 00:26:21 Speaker 1: Yeah. So as you have states Colorado, well Colorado has beat one of these things, but Colorado, Washington, California, other states in the East. As you have these states that are becoming like super restrictive, you create kind of like a hunting and fishing refugees that then carry on all their activities elsewhere, meaning Washington State. They like, they're very sting they don't they don't want to manage predators. They're very stingy with big game tags. And so you create a lot of hunting refugees who move into neighboring states and Montana, right, So should you like, would a state ever say, like, listen, if you're gonna if like, let's say Colorado had passed the Mountain Lane, but no, let's stay with California, California bands trapping the band hunting cats, hunting lines. Would Montana ever be like, Okay, if that's how you guys are about this, then your people cannot come here and do that here. 00:27:23 Speaker 2: They won't do that because it drives too much revenue. 00:27:26 Speaker 1: Well, Yanni says, you're punishing the wrong people. Yeah, Yanni says, like if Colorado had passed their Mountain Lion ban, so then you want to further punish those people in Colorado in saying they can't go elsewhere to do it. 00:27:42 Speaker 2: People who agree with the Mountain Lion Band Colorado just can't even come to Montana at all. They just have to stay there, but we'll take the hunters. 00:27:52 Speaker 1: That'd be fine with me. I feel like gloating all over again about that not passing, But. 00:28:01 Speaker 2: You can if you want. 00:28:04 Speaker 1: You know what I came up with that I haven't had a chance to use yet is a high know you know the rhino is Yes, what hunter? Namely, that'd be like the hunters that were for the Mountain Lion Band in Colorado. 00:28:20 Speaker 2: High knows like I'm a hunter. 00:28:22 Speaker 1: I hunt pheasants once a decade, and I support the ban on mountain lions. That was a thing. 00:28:30 Speaker 2: That was a high Yeah, that was the thing. That's crazy. 00:28:35 Speaker 1: Anyways, this guy writes in about reciprocty right for this, the state of Ohio does not require resident landowners to purchase a hunting license or deer tag to hunt their property. 00:28:46 Speaker 2: Wow. 00:28:46 Speaker 1: Really a minimum of five acres? I had no idea. Is that true? The state of Ohio does not require resident landowner to purchase a hunting license or deer tag to hunt their own property if they have a minimum of five acres. 00:29:03 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's true in multiple states. I think it was like that in New Jersey. 00:29:08 Speaker 1: This privilege extends to the landowner's spouse and children. Resident landowners still have to tag their deer, report them and are subject to bag limits and all the other wrecks. I had no idea. 00:29:24 Speaker 2: I want to say, I could be wrong on this, but I want to say New Jersey was like that, and you just go pick up your tags. But if you're hunting your own place, you're on your own place, and it's a above a certain acres, you just go get your tags. 00:29:38 Speaker 1: I can't say I have a problem with that. I don't know. I didn't know. That surprises me. 00:29:41 Speaker 2: That's fine. Whatever. Well, it's like, do you know. 00:29:45 Speaker 1: That in Wisconsin, if you're on your own land, you're exempt from small game regulations or something like that. I think you can hunt squirrels year around. Really, I think so Doug's probably having a heart attack on skits deer right now. They you see Doug free Doug. He goes on, are you ready for this? Okay, so we've established this resident landowner Ohio. Okay, all that a non resident you're tracking A non resident Ohio landowner and spouse and children may hunt their property without a license or deer tags if the non resident state of residence. 00:30:30 Speaker 2: My god, oh, I feel like we need to draw this out. 00:30:33 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I get it, but I'm just okay, we've established that more than eight times. We've established if you're in Ohio, you're a resident, you're hunting your own pad, you got more than five acres, you still got to abide by the hunting lawsby don't need a tag. Now, the state of Ohio does not require resident landowners to purchase the hunting license or deer tag to hunt their property. 00:31:02 Speaker 2: Okay, mm hmm, I've already read that. Oh my god, just screwing itself so bad, the non resident part. 00:31:13 Speaker 1: Screwing it up bad? Do you think about running for political office? But I'd have a bad time in the debate. 00:31:20 Speaker 2: You'd be like I lost seconds. 00:31:27 Speaker 1: I'd be like, that's not gonna work for me. Okay, writing, Okay, we've established that. Now, going on, a non resident Ohio land owner, an spouse, some children may hunt their property okay, without a license or deer tags if the non resident state of residence allows non resident landowners to hunt their land without a license or deer tags. 00:31:55 Speaker 2: Okay. So if I lived in Pennsylvania and they allow that same thing, which they don't. 00:32:02 Speaker 1: But they'd have to allow a dude in Ohio. 00:32:06 Speaker 2: But I own property Inhio. Ohio, I would be allowed to do the same thing in Ohio because Ohio has that same rule. 00:32:16 Speaker 1: Does Pennsylvania charge a non resident a deer license if the non resident owns land in Pennsylvania, that's. 00:32:24 Speaker 2: What he's saying. Well, I mean Pennsylvania doesn't do that anyway. 00:32:28 Speaker 1: Okay, so then they're out. 00:32:31 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, God, that's confusing. Well he goes on. Oh jeez, to the best of my knowledge, Oh nope, back up. 00:32:44 Speaker 1: As a Michigan resident, he's going to is everybody. 00:32:48 Speaker 2: Tracking, He's a Michigan residence. 00:32:50 Speaker 1: Is like a tongue. 00:32:50 Speaker 2: This is intellectually, he's a Michigan resident who owns property in Ohio. 00:32:54 Speaker 1: I don't know that yet. Yes he is. Okay, everybody tracking, Yeah, everybody track, Ye listen to this kind of stuff keeps you from getting dementialator in life or yeah no, just little brain twisters. Okay, as a Michigan resident where residents going, he goes on as a Michigan resident where residents, non residents, landowners and non landowners must have a hunting license and deer tag. And an Ohio landowner, let me cut the parenthetical off. 00:33:27 Speaker 2: You read that too fast. 00:33:29 Speaker 1: As a Michigan resident and an Ohio landowner, my family and I do not benefit from this reciprocity. 00:33:37 Speaker 2: Because Michigan doesn't allow it. 00:33:39 Speaker 1: Because Michigan doesn't let non residents who happen to own a place in Michigan hunt in Michigan without their Michigan Deer license. This is chapped. This guy's asked enough that he's done some research. To the best of my knowledge, the only state's residents that benefit from this reciprocity arrangement are Ohio. In no other state they've created a reciprocity rule that doesn't apply to anyone. If you can prove this man wrong, that's my kind of reciprocity law makes you seem super lenient, But in fact, when you get into the details, no one applies. 00:34:29 Speaker 2: It's not catered to anyone. Yeah, huh, maybe it was. 00:34:35 Speaker 3: Well, I'd also be curious to know, as this Michigan resident, how hard is it for him, as a landowner in Ohio to get a tag in Ohio, Like if it's still like over the counter. 00:34:45 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got pay cup hundred bucks. 00:34:46 Speaker 2: Well yeah, but like why is he complaining because. 00:34:50 Speaker 1: You watch your pennies and dollars take care of themselves. 00:34:54 Speaker 2: Fair fine, Yeah. 00:34:57 Speaker 1: He goes on, Okay, no, it's just he totally changes the subject. But it's not a non sequitor because he put down PS, which sort of announces it as you know, you're announcing it's a non sequitur PS not relating. And he also says, not related to the above, PS. Not related to the above, but another Ohio reciprocal agreement. This is different. This is interesting management. We'll talk about this because I like this, but it's different. Ohio and West Virginia allow residents of either state to hunt waterfowl and fish on the Ohio River without having a license from the other state. That's common. Yeah, that's common where for instance, New York and Pennsylvania and the Delaware River, they make a instead of creating Let's say you have one situation where Pennsylvania says you're allowed six small mouth to day and New York says you're allowed for a small mouth today, and you got this river that's you know, shoot a bowick cross. You create all kinds of problems. So what states will often do in those situations is they'll come and make the states will agree, they'll make a river bag limit, a river set of regulations, and allow anyone from the bordering states to fish the river. 00:36:20 Speaker 2: YEP. 00:36:22 Speaker 1: An interesting spot where this little bit of reciprocity does not exist is the Saint Mary's River, which divides Michigan. For there's probably many other places. The Saint Mary's which divides Michigan with Canada with Ontario. You need to pay attention where you are because there's a magical line running out in the middle of that stuff, and you got to know what side of that line you're on, even in your boat. 00:36:51 Speaker 2: I want to say. That's the thing on the Mississippi too. 00:36:54 Speaker 1: You know there are some spots in the Mississippi like that because remember a bass professional basque guy disqualified from a tournament because he had strayed across some invisible line and was actually fishing at different states waters and they had a different bag limit in those states or something like that. 00:37:09 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. 00:37:10 Speaker 1: It, but I like it when they come together and do those little deals. 00:37:14 Speaker 2: Right What about uh? Like people fish in Lake Michigan from the Michigan side, but make a big run? Is there is there? Say it again? Like if you're fishing Lake, Michigan, and you launch in Michigan, but make a big run and you're like closer to Wisconsin. 00:37:37 Speaker 1: I don't know how that. I don't know how Michigan Wisconsin do it. That's a great question. We never fished that far out. That's a lot. That's the ways. Yeah, I got buddies that do. I don't know what they. I don't know if you got I'm guessing there on that lake of that size, I'm guessing you need to get a license when you cross the state line and the state line runs out in the water. Here's a guy on the same subject. Ready for this, yep. He says he was listening to the podcast this morning in his tree stand and killed the dough and he says, take that for what it's worth. Then he goes out to say, towards the end, they meaning we mentioned a write in where a guy complained about being a landowner and having to pay non resident fees. I remember this guy. He's like, how in the hell can I have h He's griping because he's like, I live in whatever, I don't know whether this Michigan and I own a place in Ohio. I shouldn't have to pay non resident fees in Ohio. But think about the can of worms you're opening up there, right, Like, Okay, do you want to file taxes in both states? Do you wanna? You know what I mean? There's like there's a thousand things right that you would probably not like if that was true. Well, he don't, you know, I'm I'm not giving him full credit. He does pay taxes. He pays land taxes there. But the way the whole country set up, you got to be a resident of a state. It's just how It's just it's hard to get around that. He goes on to say this. Towards the end, they mentioned a writing where a guy complained about being a landowner and having to pay non resident fees. I do the same thing. However, I live in Tennessee and hunt in Alabama. I wish the roles were reversed. But if you're born in Tennessee, you can apply every year for non resident native to Tennessee licenses. Damn, Idaho has that thing the lifetime, Yeah, Idaho had it for it's no longer the way, but you could get grandfathered in on it at once upon a time, and a lot of dudes took advantage of this. They knew they weren't gonna stay in Idaho. I could name names. And one of them likes to complain about anyone getting any kind of benefit, like anytime someone draws a tag, he's like down on them. But this individual, you guys know and love, ran out and bought his lifetime Idaho license before moving away from Idaho so that he could continue to dodge fees and hunt as a resident in Ohio. I thought you can still, and he cries foul at any advantage that anybody gets when it comes to getting a tag. He wishes he got. 00:40:36 Speaker 2: I thought you can still do that in Idahoo. 00:40:38 Speaker 1: I think they got rid of I don't think it works that way anymore. But if you said, oh, I drew a big horn tag in Idaho, he's gonna give you a big ol' eye roll. Must be nice. 00:40:52 Speaker 3: Is this Is this the same fella that's also not very lucky when it comes to drawing, Yes, because. 00:40:57 Speaker 1: Way way it's taking this gradually taking a toll on them. Yeah, it's taking it. It's taking a psychological toll. But they did that. 00:41:08 Speaker 2: They did that. 00:41:10 Speaker 1: Montana has a coming home to hunt. I can't remember who was talking to you about this, it's like if you like, it's meant to be that. Like, let's say you have a family and you your you have kids, and your your kids go away. It gives advantage to your kids to get tags so you can come home to hunt. The coming home to hunt hunt. 00:41:29 Speaker 3: Is that still like an application process or is it like kind of like an OTC. 00:41:34 Speaker 1: I think it's in a different I don't know. 00:41:36 Speaker 2: I think that's just different. Different got a different price, I think so. 00:41:44 Speaker 1: Uh, this gentleman says, uh, attached to this email's application. It would be cool to see more states do this. Also, y'all joked about voting in two different states. Oddly enough, my former police chief wasn't indicted for doing that and several other charges earlier this year. Was or wasn't It was not? I think he must have meant was probably when that came that came up, and when we did that, I think we did the episode. Yeah, remember we interviewed were you there when we interviewed the women that got mauled by the otter? No, I was telling a story on that one where I was in a restaurant overhearing people next to me. There's a huge table full of people and they were actually from an animal rights organization. They're having a dinner of Bozeman based animal rights organization and I'm overhearing them and there's a guy plotting. I got caught by my wife because I wasn't paying attention, but she was telling me because I was so engrossed by what they were talking about. And he was plotting than Illinois, but he wanted to be able to vote in a swing state, so was switching all of his stuff around to be able to go vote in Michigan. Wow, because he wanted to vote in a swing state because he wanted to vote against Trump. So then I said, when Trump says the election was rigged, I was like, well there's one. 00:43:22 Speaker 2: Yeah, it ain't zero, ain't zero. 00:43:29 Speaker 1: Uh Man. This guy, he even though we said we're no longer going to talk about pre chewed food, he's like asking if there could be one last little thing. 00:43:46 Speaker 2: No, well that's an in depth. 00:43:55 Speaker 1: Deal, man. He's got it's a lot in here. 00:43:58 Speaker 2: He's got bullet points. 00:44:05 Speaker 1: Okay, there's a guy that's a tough one. There's a guy that wrote in and he had some things to say about making babies eat solid food and the advantages of breastfeeding. Then another guy wrote in and said, what does he know? He's a he's a DDS. 00:44:27 Speaker 2: Okay, what's dds? 00:44:29 Speaker 1: Dennis? And he laid out all these credentials and talked about how this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Now he's got a rebuttal. 00:44:41 Speaker 2: Uh when people say, what is what? What do they know? He's just a dentist. How do you know that guy isn't a hobbyist just like research some other topic when he goes home. Sorry, credibility. Yeah, when people say he what did he know he's a dentist? What people don't know that like maybe his hobby's going home and researching that kind of Well here's where he came out. Swing. I don't I don't have a degree in hunting whitetail bucks. 00:45:09 Speaker 1: But you know, but it's like it's it's sort of like a little bit generally be like generally accepted. Like if we're having an argument about George Washington, okay, and you're like, oh, he chopped down that cherry tree, you know, and lied about it. And then a guy's like, well, I have a PhD in American history and I did my dissertation on the my You know, my thesis was on the veracity of the claim that George Washington chopped down a cherry tree and lied about it. Now, if I'm hearing this conversation, I'm probably gonna be looking to the PhD cherry chopper guy, Yeah, to maybe have a little more intel about that occurrence. 00:45:53 Speaker 2: I understand that, but I I think sometimes people get a little carried away with sometimes. 00:46:00 Speaker 1: Yes, but in some areas, this guy was saying, hey, man, it's better to breastfeed babies, and it's better to pre chew food and give them meat and give them tough stuff to chew on, chewy steaks and whatnot, and that we're creating muscular problems by giving babies all this soft food. And he has little squeeze bottles. This other guy writes in being like, you know, here's the deal. I'm the real expert, and that's all bs is what he says. M Okay, the dentist said that this other dentist gotcha. Now, this first denist comes back swinging because this other guy said his kid wants to fight that guy's kid. 00:46:43 Speaker 2: All right, let's hear it, dang, I'll tell you what dentist that thinks right. 00:46:52 Speaker 1: It's so it's so complicated, we really do, I really want. 00:46:55 Speaker 2: To get into this. I probably agree with the dentist who's all about eating deer meat and drinking milk. 00:47:02 Speaker 1: He starts out with a little dig because this guy was saying in the end of it, he made a joke like, hey, my kid'll fight your kid anytime. Okay, now that so the first Dennis now writes in, and he dresses his letter to the guy, so it's Max on one side and Matthew on the other side. Max wrote in saying, you should give your babies tough deer meat to help their jaws develop. And when their jaws develop and their musculature develops, it helps them in all kinds of ways throughout life. Yeah, this other guy's saying that's horseshit. That guy's name is Matthew. The first guy's Max Max Max. So now Matthew writes, Dear, honorable, honorable and distinguished colleague, Matthew, it's no shock that your baby wants to fight mine. Kids are wild. But here's the kicker. There's a connection between sleep disordered breathing and ADHD in children. ADHD's hallmark. Hyperactivity and emotional chaos can make kiddos more prone to throw hands in the playpen. A little slight sticks the knife right in the ribs before he even gets started. 00:48:17 Speaker 2: He goes on. 00:48:17 Speaker 1: Now, you might be asking, what does sleep breathing have to do with my kid's weak jaw? Excellent question. Research shows a high prevalence of mallow clusion, underdeveloped jaws, and children with obstructive sleep avenue compared to the control group. Simply put, your kid's jaw might be slacking in their sleep, and mood might be paying the price. And he goes next. I imagine you saying you still haven't proven that my baby's diet of squeeze bag peas and rubber nipples is ruining their jaw, And you're right. Every kid responds differently. But here's what research tells us. Breastfeeding is a positive factor that seems to reduce the incidents of posterior crossbite, skeletal class two and distal occlusion, and primary mixed dentician. 00:49:11 Speaker 2: I knew that. I didn't know. 00:49:14 Speaker 1: That animals raised on soft foods show more rotated and displaced teeth, crowded premolars, and absolutely and relatively narrower dental arches. Get this, middle aged adults in rural Kentucky had better occlusion than younger folks. The younger generation grew up eating commercially processed foods while their elders chomped on coarse, homemade fair. Then he goes out with a bunch of disclaimers. Breastfeeding is noise easy, feeding kids course or foods feels like a battle. We're all doing the best we can. But he ends with this, here's my advice. Cheer up some venison, spit it into your baby's bowl, and let the kid take a nap. 00:50:17 Speaker 2: That sounds like great advice. 00:50:18 Speaker 1: Yeah, And then he has all the citations, Dirt, if you want me to afford them to you. 00:50:22 Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be nice. 00:50:23 Speaker 4: Is this Is this a side of Stirring the Pot? Is this an intro onto that that series? 00:50:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, Stirring the Pot. That's my next show, TV show, stir in the Pot. You know what this? 00:50:38 Speaker 2: Then I said, yeah. 00:50:39 Speaker 1: I'll be like, hey, you know what's I'll call Dirt's girlfriend, you know, hands checking in. 00:50:47 Speaker 4: This is stirring the pot. 00:50:51 Speaker 1: That's kind of weird thing there. And Scott just can't stay thinking about the same dirt said there. 00:50:59 Speaker 2: Anyway, how let you go. 00:51:01 Speaker 4: I want to say, Hill, I. 00:51:06 Speaker 2: Have a great night. 00:51:08 Speaker 1: He has dirt been field. Okay, you just said something kind of strange about you there to night. Everything good. 00:51:17 Speaker 2: I wouldn't worry. 00:51:17 Speaker 1: I know if everything's fine, I don't know. Don't you know? I don't want to portray his trust. 00:51:21 Speaker 2: Gotta go another call, come there, do me a favorite. Don't tell my. 00:51:24 Speaker 4: Called Stephen reneul Is is signing off for stirring the pot. 00:51:36 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know. I mean, I want to talk about the mussloader, but mussloader hunt, but I don't. I don't have to talk about musslier hunt. Seth. You're an expert. How many do you kill the mussloader? 00:51:45 Speaker 2: Seth? Well, at one point in time I killed more white tails with the mussloader than a rifle al lock. Yeah, but I surpassed that now. I don't know, six, seven, eight, ten, I don't know. A handful, handful? Yeah, all bucks, Nope, not all bucks, some bucks, some bucks mostly does. 00:52:09 Speaker 1: Yeah. How many times have you dropped the hammer on a buck and the gun didn't go off or you messed up something several? 00:52:15 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, no, go ahead. Well, how often was it a drive versus a like still hundred most most drives, yeah, most drives, maybe all drives. Yeah, I think all the deer I've ever killed with a flint lock has been from a deer drive. And a lot of times it's me doing the driving with rather than watching and you double bump, you just well a lot of times you yeah, yeah, so you jump them up and they go down, get shot at and come back, so they're on the move by that point. Yeah. Well sometimes yeah, uh, you. 00:52:55 Speaker 1: Know, I don't think i've even I have one time, I haven't tracked much with a round ball. 00:53:02 Speaker 2: What do you mean like blood tracks? 00:53:03 Speaker 1: By having blood track stuff that has hit by a round ball. When we say a round ball, like we're talking about there's there's muzzleloaders, and there's flint locks and flint locks. It's a whole different ball game, you know, because Muslims now, they're they're pretty sophisticated. You got inline musloaders with special primers and everything's kind of sealed and doesn't get wet. But a flint lock's hard to hunt, hard to learn, you know. Yeah, And one thing about when you when you loading a flint lock, you're taking like a lead sphere, you know, like a musketball and putting it down there. It's not conical. 00:53:33 Speaker 2: Shaped, Nope, it's just a ball lead. 00:53:36 Speaker 1: So when you're hitting a deer with that thing, when you recover that ball, what's to end up looking like? 00:53:43 Speaker 2: Trying to think if I ever recovered one, I don't remember every recovering one. 00:53:50 Speaker 1: Does it mushroom out or does it just punch a hole? 00:53:55 Speaker 2: I remember one time I shot a deer like right behind the sho shoulder, you know, double lunged, and it was like it was the biggest blood trail I've ever with that realm with the round ball. Yeah, yeah, I'd love to see. I've never seen one like shot in the Ballistic Jael or anything, so I honestly don't know what it does in there. But yeah, I don't think I've ever recovered one. Just punch out and go go about their business. 00:54:24 Speaker 1: It'd be interesting to check out. 00:54:27 Speaker 2: The blistic jail that it does in Blistic Jael. We should do that. 00:54:31 Speaker 1: We should shoot a bunch of flint locks and and uh shoot flint locks and the I mean the blissic Jel doesn't know that it was a flint lock. But you know what I'm saying, shoot a bunch of black powder flint locks in the ballistic gel. 00:54:42 Speaker 2: Ye, see what it actually does. I was surprised, how soft. What's the non round ball one we were using? 00:54:49 Speaker 1: This is a conical or a prelude MAXI ball. 00:54:52 Speaker 2: Yeah, the conical. 00:54:53 Speaker 4: How soft it was when you guys were round rodding it. 00:54:58 Speaker 2: That's lead for you man. Yeah, yeah, it gets misshaping. 00:55:02 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, it is not a hell oft say. It's kind of got my ass handed to me on the most loader hunting A lot of close calls. 00:55:11 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tough. 00:55:12 Speaker 1: If I hadn't, like I announced a family moratorium on killing milder dose, I had a lot of opportunities to shoot me. 00:55:18 Speaker 2: You could kill a lot of those. 00:55:19 Speaker 1: But o, nap man, just tough hunting a spot. I'm not hunting the spot. I haven't hunted deer on hard before. I kind of would go about it different now now that I kind of understand how they do what they do and what their tolerances are. 00:55:33 Speaker 2: The thing about about muzzlerter like flint lock musslater hunting is there's a set of challenges to get close to a deer with get to get within range. And then once you get in range and it comes time to shoot, there's like a another You open up the door and there's another set of challenges there. 00:55:54 Speaker 1: We the the hammer cocking on those things. We are they crept up on one, uh, crept up on a mule deer and couldn't really determine, but it seems like the hammer cocking, Yeah, spooked it. It's loud. What I started doing now is our cock it ahead of time, but pulling the set triggers loud. 00:56:16 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the cocks. The pulling the hammerbags loud. The set triggers loud. And then just like these evenings, the few evenings we've been sitting out here, it's just so quiet, like the wind dies down. Yeah, and you could hear a pin drop. Would muzzleloaders hunt with the set trigger, everything's just like down to the hair trigger. 00:56:39 Speaker 1: I don't know. I've never in all the reading I've done about hunt with flint locks, I have no idea what you must have because even when you're like bushwhacking another person, there's no way you were cocking that yeah thing bag. 00:56:50 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I wonder what they did back in the day. 00:56:57 Speaker 4: I kept thinking of that lasting mole can scene. 00:56:59 Speaker 2: This old trip. Oh yeah, he's he cuts off the helk a couple. 00:57:06 Speaker 1: There's a thing that that about those flint locks like to give you a sense of how stealthy people were. There's a thing we talked about this in the We talked about this in our Long Hunters audiobook that they would you would more be looking when you're trying to find someone or check for people going through the woods. You'd be more looking for the barrel, looking for that big, long, straight barrel. You're more likely to see the barrel than the dude holding it, and you look for that. 00:57:36 Speaker 2: Straight straight lines. You'd look for the. 00:57:38 Speaker 1: Straight line, try to in order to try to find somebody. Is your soose. There's no way someone's taking stealth that seriously. And then it's going to click click. He's probably laying there at that set trigger engaged. 00:57:52 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just breathe on that, you know, and. 00:57:55 Speaker 1: Just protecting it so it does nothing. Breathes on it. I've two times muffed up messing with the set trigger. Yeah, once something with you and once here muffed up like hitting the set trigger and then getting your finger around because once that, once you do the set trigger. That thing is on. I don't know what it is. Ounces Yeah, so getting your finger it definitely can't be doing with a glove, getting the set trigger and then bringing your finger up and it's a weird little space and just you just and also two times into the air yep, or I even got the because you're just trying to find the trigger, you know, and it's got that little that little teeny because there's a trigger guard and it's got two triggers in it. So picture your trigger guard as two triggers, one big, one little, and you do the one. There's not a lot of room in there, for there's not a lot of room in front of the regular trigger. 00:58:48 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:58:49 Speaker 1: So even just trying to get your finger up in the right neighborhood shoots the damn gun off for me because I don't do it enough. 00:58:54 Speaker 2: Well, we need to get you is uh like a the I forget what the Thompsons used to make one called a Pennsylvania Hunter and it was just one trigger. 00:59:04 Speaker 1: Well here's what I'm getting. I'm broadcasting this out into the world because then I'm willing to pay for it. Let me know if you're my man, if you're a gun maker, I'm getting a here's what I want because because the rules where I'm at, I need an exposed hammer percussion cap, not an inline exposed hammer percussion cap. Single trigger muzzleoader. 00:59:33 Speaker 2: Yep, there's some good muzzle I want to shoot. 00:59:36 Speaker 1: I want to shoot Pirate X or Triple seven and I would I'd like to shoot conicals out of it, which is one less thing because like normally, when you load, like in the old oldie days, when you load a flint lock, you pour your powder charge down the barrel and then you got to take a piece of what's called the patch, so the ball doesn't grab the ball doesn't grab the lands and the barrel that well, So what you do is you wrap the ball in a greased patch, and that grease patch is kind of like you're wadding or like it. Yeah, yeah, and that is what helps throw a spiral on it when it comes out that patch. So if you shoot there, they make these bullets that you don't need the patch. I want a gun and I don't want any bullshit someone saying like, oh, it's you know, subma whatever, like peep site, single trigger shoots conicles. The barrels spiraled for kind of twisted for conicles, percussion cap. 01:00:40 Speaker 2: There you go, that's what I want. 01:00:41 Speaker 4: How far are they shooting? I'm going you mentioned it. 01:00:43 Speaker 2: How far are they shooting modern muzzle lators that would be under regulation in Montana like the. 01:00:50 Speaker 1: Bes knees the way the right spelled here, Yeah, you know, one hundred yards because you can use the optic. 01:00:56 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that can't use like the fancy in lines here. So that's the limited states stay. Also, an optic is real helpful. 01:01:03 Speaker 1: Yeah, an optic helps you out a lot. When we did when we did long in our Long Hunters audiobook about the Daniel Boone and the Hide Hunters, Like I'd always had this question about how good were guys, Like how good really were guys with with flintlocks? You know, because in the mythology there's like, you know, old tick liquor, like it could shoot a tick off a deer shooting balls and hitting a hatchet blade and splitting the ball and killing two guys, you know, like whatever, all these accounts lasting Mohicans, these like three hundred yard running shots through the woods, you know, hitting guys, Like how good they were? So when we were working on that, me and Randall got into the question of like trying to find accounts of like what really could be done with the flint lock. Yeah, you know. And similarly, now that we're coming out with our Mountain Man one, we're kind of like, how really were they catching bab Like like what were the set Like how did they catch beaver in the mountain beyond the lower kind of yeah, like beyond the like oh they did this, that and the other thing. And you're reading like, I don't think that's what they did, you know, it doesn't make sense. And I don't think they were splitting shots against hatchets and killing two guys like waiting for like the Indian to hold his hatchet up and then he hit his blade and he killed. 01:02:16 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:02:17 Speaker 1: So there's these shooting contests that we talked about in that long hundred piece. You can just go by it in the you know, it's a it's an audio books, you can purchase it. There's these guys called Uh, there's these real bad bad dudes Brady's Rangers, and like these are bad dudes. 01:02:39 Speaker 2: Like bad like badass or yeah bad like they're both doing outlaw. 01:02:45 Speaker 1: There were some bad dude they were like he had some so they were like along the Ohio River in the mid seventeen hundreds when tribes would cross like the Shawnee and people would come from the north across the river and raidss in West Virginia, yep, raid settlements in Kentucky. These he had this collection of he had this collection of woodsmen and hunters that he formed into this like kind of almost like this little bit of a It was almost like a paramilitary special forces unite. And they would get on their trail and track them and they'd track them back across the Ohio or they'd ambush them, like they'd find canoes part hidden they like the Shawne would sink canoes now and then like they'd cross the Ohio and sink their canoes and then go raid. So these rangers would wait at river crossings and stuff, and they raised some help, but they oftentimes like they oftentimes like got their man, but then they got some other guys too. They were they had a reputation for being somewhat indiscriminate in their pursuits and if they were tracking someone ran to somebody else. Anyways, there's some bad dudes and they were considered like crack shooters, and there's some accounts of them competing against regular soldiers in shooting contests, and they would clean their clock, but they would make a mark on a tree. They would make a mark on a tree the size of a dollar bill, which was the we have the dimensions on it. It's not quite like our dollar bill today. But you're basically making a hatchet slash in a tree like a bill, and then at sixty paces and they could put most but not all of those balls into that mark. Regular soldiers could not. So that gives you an idea of like what really was what they were really doing. 01:04:43 Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's the same the soldiers and the the bad boys are using the same. 01:04:48 Speaker 1: No, so the soldiers have way better just wait because they're hunting with the hunting rifles. There was at that time people weren't the backwoodsman. It's kind of funny. The backwoodsmen were getting into rifled barrels, and they were getting into lighter calibers, smaller balls and rifling, and soldiers were oftentimes given these smooth bares, and like the rifling kind of came from a different direction of how guys caught on it. So these guys were shooting like pretty sophisticated but oftentimes home like handmade guns. 01:05:23 Speaker 4: Yeah, customized customer out. 01:05:26 Speaker 1: Wow, where you're actually taking a bar in, rolling that bar to make the barrel, like hammering it out, rolling it, smoothing it out, cutting the lands and grooves and cutting the grooves into it. Whole thing all made by. 01:05:44 Speaker 2: Hand, understanding their tool. 01:05:46 Speaker 1: But like, how good could you be, because like they were, I think of how inconsistent gunpowder is. You're pouring shot by hand, right, it's you know, it's just a lot of inconsistencies. But there's the mythology is how good these guys were these flint locks. But and it's still impressive, but they weren't like you know, in our reachar. It's just like for someone to hit to hit a deer at two hundred yards was really something that was really something with a flint lock, but shooting at shooting at sixty paces was like pretty what you were after, which is very similar, Like it's like not too terribly far off from what you're looking for now. Yeah, a flint lock, and that's putting them into ah, you know, and that's putting them into a something about the size of a bill. They would shoot further distances at the head of a shooting at the head the top of a keg, which is so it's about an eight inch circle. They would set up and you would They would set up and go a little farther and try to put it into an eight inch circle. So they weren't miracle workers with those things. 01:06:53 Speaker 2: Yeah, just knew the tool, knew the rifle very well. 01:06:57 Speaker 1: I could definitely see like I was telling myself, I'm going to do this but now, but recognizing I'm probably lying to myself, I was like, man, I should just do it where for like a bunch of years going forward, I only hunt with that freaking flint lock. 01:07:09 Speaker 2: That's all I touch. Tough guys to do it. 01:07:13 Speaker 1: Just be like, yeah, Jim Becktel yep, just be like I'm gonna humpt if I like, I'm only like like same way like certain dudes like cam Agnes, he just huntsed a bow, he don't hunt the gun. Doesn't do it, and be like I only hunt with the flint lock until I get that thing mastered. 01:07:29 Speaker 2: Yeah, you'd always have to be in that one twenty hundred yards zone. 01:07:33 Speaker 1: No, sure, I don't give a shit. Yeah, just get where I'm like Joe flint Lock Man or Steve flint Lock. I'm not gonna actually do that. But if I was cooler than I am, that's what I would do. 01:07:44 Speaker 2: He had more time, That's what I would do. See this book, Old Grizzly. This book is phenomenal. 01:07:56 Speaker 1: I'm only pointing this book out because this guy just put together it was like, it's like a journal. Did you put together? It's self published. 01:08:07 Speaker 2: Journals. 01:08:08 Speaker 1: Yep, Old Grizzly to a better understanding of life on the frontier? 01:08:13 Speaker 2: Is that him? 01:08:14 Speaker 1: That's Old Grizzly. So this guy's later and he's a grizz He was hunting grizzlies in the cell kirks. 01:08:21 Speaker 2: Oh nice, and. 01:08:27 Speaker 1: Uh, it's phenomenal man. You know, we do Steve Reid's books, so you ain't got to We even have a little I don't have it with me, but there's a thing that goes it's time. 01:08:37 Speaker 2: Oh you have it. 01:08:40 Speaker 1: You play it into my Endo SAT's headphones. It's time for Steve Lee's books. 01:08:50 Speaker 2: So you ain't got to. 01:08:55 Speaker 1: See what I'm saying. 01:08:56 Speaker 2: Old. 01:09:00 Speaker 1: So it's a series we do where I read a book and I just find the good parts can tell you about them. Yeah, and then you ain't got to read it. You ain't got it because I already read it, and I told you all the good parts. 01:09:15 Speaker 2: Got more time to shoot your flint lock. 01:09:17 Speaker 1: Yep, you ready for a couple of these? 01:09:19 Speaker 2: Yep. 01:09:20 Speaker 1: In the winter, we often hunted muskrats with long spear we had made from a quarter inch round iron rod. It had a sharp barb on the spear end and a round wood handle fastened on the other end. When the ice would bear our weight, we would go out to their houses and shove the spear through the center of each house. The houses were made of grass and mud from the edge of the lake and were easily penetrated. We seldom missed getting at least one from each place we tried. The spear was sharp and it made a clean cut in the pelt, which did not depreciate its value. 01:10:01 Speaker 2: Dang, that's cool. What year was this? 01:10:04 Speaker 1: I'll get you arrested. Don't do that now, So I'm trying. So he was running around in uh old grizzly here one second, Old Grizzly killed fifty six grizzly bears in Western Canada, all the Selkirks between eighteen ninety five and nineteen twenty four. Then he went back in nineteen thirty five and killed another one. So most of this action is occurring in the mid like like well, most of the action is occurring in the early nineteen hundreds. 01:10:42 Speaker 2: Okay, you can't do that now, you can't. 01:10:45 Speaker 1: Go can't gig muskrats anymore through the roof of their house. 01:10:53 Speaker 2: Ready for this? 01:10:54 Speaker 1: Yes, directly he's talking about and pike, spear and fish if no, Okay, directly he's talking about they go out. They'd go out to spear northerns Okay for commercial uh for commercial sale. But here's an interesting bit. The highest price we got for our fish was around four cents a pound, and that was for black bass, large mouths. So in those days they were spearing large mouths through the ice and sell them for four bucks for selling them for four cents a pound on the commercial market. So you would go into a fish market in those years and you could buy large mouth bass. You could buy speared large mouth bass and bring it home to eat. 01:11:52 Speaker 2: At the table. 01:11:55 Speaker 1: In the fall of the year, we would make a few dollars by what we called pulling trees. Settlers living on the prairie would come to town and hire boys to pull up small cottonwood seedlings, which grew on the sand bars along the river. The settlers planted the seedlings around their homes to start a windbreak. Some settlers had extra land given to them by the government provided they planted it with trees, and we also supplied seedling trees for such planting. The seedlings were usually about ten inches long and grew in clean sand from seeds washed there from the previous season. It was easy for even a small boy to pull up a dozen or more at a time. We tied them in bunches of a thousand, for which we received twenty cents. We considered this an easy way to make money. 01:12:48 Speaker 4: Wonder what's in flat like what would the math beyond that? Like what's twenty cents nowadays? And from nineteen twenty like a hundred bucks? 01:12:59 Speaker 2: You want to know what else he would do for money? Yep. 01:13:02 Speaker 1: Sometimes the settler wanted maple seeds to plant, We supplied them. No, he did all his hunting in Western Canada, but grew up in the Midwest Okay. Sometimes the settler wanted maple seeds to plant. We supplied them, but it was hard work to get them. We first had to chop down a tree and then strip the seeds from the limbs, and they usually were so firmly attached that it was a case of pulling off one seed at a time. The settlers paid us one dollar for a gunny sack full of these maple seeds. We noticed that some of the sacks were larger than others, but soon got over that difficulty by filling up the bottom of the big sacks with leaves. 01:13:47 Speaker 2: That's called cheating, dirty or just opportunistic. You get seven dollars fifty cents. Oh, Zoey got under ten bucks for a thousand cottonwoods. 01:14:05 Speaker 1: My kid went to a turkey shoot at the bow range, and I was trying to explain to him that when I was a kid, a turkey shoot, Like now you'll shoot targets to win a frozen turkey. 01:14:15 Speaker 2: Yeah, I used to do that. 01:14:16 Speaker 1: Well, when I was a boy, you could go down to our gun range and there was an actual turkey shot. Oh yeah, behind a sand They put a turkey behind a sandbar, and well you just shoot. You had to have twenty two and hit it head its head. 01:14:33 Speaker 2: Whoever got it got the turn. 01:14:34 Speaker 1: That's dodging around back there with just his head sticking up out of a sandbar. I was so little, I didn't do it, but it was the thing, huh, he said. He's talking about these guys going to a turkey shoot. It was always an interesting sight to watch these old timers load their rifles at the turkey shoot, which was an annual affair at home. They were all good shots too, and never never failed to get a turkey. The men would lie up along the river bank and shoot at a turkey place with its feet tied together on the shore some distance away. The shots were ten cents and the bird was yours if you hit it anywhere. 01:15:14 Speaker 2: Sounds like a good deal. 01:15:19 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think if I'm gonna tell you about any more of these, you know what he gets into. He winds up having exposure. This is the last thing I'm gonna tell you. I'm run on the show. He winds up having exposure to you know, the guy that killed Jesse James. 01:15:33 Speaker 2: Oh, kind of backstabby Robert Ford. 01:15:37 Speaker 1: Yeah, he has some details about when the killing of Robert Ford. Mister Ford was standing at the bar talking to a man about contributing some money to a fund. He was raising to bury one of the dance hall girls who had just died. As four turned from the bar, he called a greeting to O'Kelly, that's who killed Robert Ford. He called a greeting to O'Kelly, who was only about five feet away, without saying a word. O'Kelly pulled up the gun and fired a blast the buckshot from both barrels, which blew away half of Bob Ford's head. 01:16:26 Speaker 2: Oh, what's called a greeting? Mean? 01:16:30 Speaker 1: Just to listen, I'm only on page twenty seven. I've read the whole thing. 01:16:36 Speaker 2: It's a heavy hitting the whole way. 01:16:37 Speaker 1: Yeah, look at these Look at all these highlights I got in mind. 01:16:39 Speaker 2: Wow, I don't got to read it anymore. 01:16:42 Speaker 1: Though, you don't need to read it because now you know the main good parts. 01:16:47 Speaker 2: What's called a greeting? Mean? 01:16:49 Speaker 1: Well, he wanted to make it so, he wanted to make so Jesse James gets killed by Robert Ford. It's kind of a trader, yeah, and in this guy around town, it's kind of local bad guy around town wants to make a name for himself. He wants to kill Robert Ford to make a name for himself. He doesn't get any trouble for it. Yeah, Robert Ford has a bar and I've heard other accounts that he took a bunch of h He took a bunch of pipe iron pipe, and cut it into little rings, and then chiseled those rings in the little slivers and actually funneled that down the barrel of a double barrel and shot Robert. 01:17:27 Speaker 2: Ford with that bunch of shrapnel. Wow. 01:17:29 Speaker 1: Some accounts have him cutting Robert Ford in half down at the waist, and some accounts his account has him cutting Robert Ford and half along the head. 01:17:39 Speaker 2: Jeez. 01:17:41 Speaker 1: He wound up dying a violent death. 01:17:44 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh the other guy. 01:17:45 Speaker 1: He died of violent death. Yikes. 01:17:51 Speaker 4: It's all for today. Do you still think this was the worst trip you've ever been on? 01:17:58 Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, Yeah. 01:18:02 Speaker 1: This is a low point in my life. 01:18:04 Speaker 2: Really, That's what I try to think of other bad ones we've had fifty years. 01:18:08 Speaker 1: Is the lowest point in my life. Nothing to do with that up from here March. Yeah, nothing to do with that, Maggie. There's the lowest point in my life. There's it's just like, yeah, it's like I don't know what to do. I don't know how I can go home and be a father to my children. You know, I feel like he'll be like, you know, yeah, they'll be like I was raised by They'll they'll they'll grow up later in life, they'll they'll go to a therapist and they'll say, I was raised by a broken man. Were fine, I'd be like, he was fine until like December twenty fourth. After that he was. 01:18:42 Speaker 2: A broken make the shell of a man. He'll be like, what broke your old man? He'd be like the flint lock muscle. 01:18:49 Speaker 1: Yeah, he got, he went down, he got knowing my mom didn't want him to do it, but he got that God damn flint lock. 01:18:59 Speaker 2: The first time there broken, second time, definitely broken. 01:19:04 Speaker 1: And he was never the same. He just took to the bottle, you know, Coca Cola with all next flip season when I'm flir like Joe, you know, I'm not hunting next year's flint lock season because I have already killed a buck during regular season with my flint lock. Because that's all you well, you don't know flint lock. But but that said, I am in the market for that that gun, that single trigger, percussion cap, long barreled, straight shooting Maxi ball gun and your gun makers out there all right. Thanks y'all get