00:00:11 Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. I'm still in Kansas at Turkey Camp, but I wanted to take advantage of the opportunity to talk with my buddy Brock Shelton about white tailed deer hunting. He's one of those guys who may not have social media. He may not talk a whole lot about his success, but his wallet antlers tells me everything I need to know about if he knows what he's doing out in the woods. He's got a pile of big bucks to his name, and some of those are nearing that magical tuner inch mark, so I know he knows what he's doing out there, and to boot he may just be the nicest guy ever. I've had the fortune of coming to Kansas for four years now and Brock's always running dinner. He's got dinner on the smoker, running us here, running us there. So it makes me rethink how good of a guy I am being here in Kansas. I've had the chance to share a blind with them a little bit. This week. We've we've talked a lot of hunting. We've talked about the history of the area and kind of the history of hunting in this area. And then we talked a lot about how he manages the properties for deer and turkey, amongst a bunch of other things. So I'm excited to get him here on the podcast. Welcome to the show. 00:01:16 Speaker 2: Brock. Hey, thanks for having me. Jason. 00:01:18 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we've you were here from the I believe the first time, you know, we showed up in Kansas, you were involved. We hunted with you a couple couple times in and uh since we've been coming back deer hunting. So yeah, it's I think you had killed that When did you kill that big buck? I'm even gonna guess. 00:01:36 Speaker 2: I killed my largest one to date back in twenty fifteen, so it's been a few years. A few years back, Oh gotcha. 00:01:43 Speaker 1: And that that buck I said, nearing two hundred. I thought he might have made it. How big did that? 00:01:47 Speaker 2: He was like one nine and changed close real clue. 00:01:52 Speaker 1: Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna round up because that's the kind of guy I am. So you have a two hundred each buck? 00:01:56 Speaker 2: Thank you? 00:01:57 Speaker 1: No, it was a it was a giant buck. I think that year I got to go over to Brock's place and check out, you know, his his shop and those bucks and and some of the big white tails he had killed, and uh, very impressive. And like I said, he's a he's a quiet guy. Doesn't talk a whole lot about you know this or that or claim that he he knows all this. But just talking with him you get to you get the idea that he knows a whole lot about whitetail hunting and uh, pretty dang good at it. So, like all episodes of Cutting the Distance, today, I'm gonna jump in to listener question and answer, but we've got a special version of the listener question and answer today. I just got my questions from Dirk Durham. He had three that he wanted me to throw at Brox, So we're gonna We're gonna do it that way. But if you or if you've got any questions of your own for me or my guests, feel free to email them to us at ct D at Phelps game Calls dot com, or send us a message on social media and we'll do our best to get them included here. So I'm gonna throw three questions here at your brock. But that Dirk had what is your opinion on scent control? You know, coming from the West we're more of a get the wind at your face and you're good to go. 00:03:07 Speaker 2: You know. 00:03:08 Speaker 1: We always use the old the saying like, oh, Grandpa used to smoke and he's killed more elk or more deer than anybody we know. But we come out here, you know, come out to the Midwest, and I think it's you know, you're sitting in one spot, You're sitting in the stand. It becomes maybe more critical at this point. Sure, And so what's your opinion on that. 00:03:26 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always good to hear. 00:03:27 Speaker 1: You know. 00:03:27 Speaker 2: Some of you guys come in from other states and say how the wind's always blowing here, But having lived here my whole life, it's just another day. So we do play the wind. I always try to look at multiple weather stations or reports and try to play the wind and look at the wind, and I'll I run a lot of cameras and I try to look at deer activity. And I won't go into a stand and tell the weather's in my favor. I don't want to go in there and let other deer know that I'm there, and also the one that I'm hung thing, because you can you can mess up a stand just going in wrong one time. 00:04:04 Speaker 1: Yep. 00:04:04 Speaker 2: So it's very very key to me. And you also play your thermals. Uh look look look at the thermals in the mornings. Of course everything's rising. It helps you get away with a little bit more if there's little to no wind. But yeah, I I also do scent control as far as the soaps, the showers, the the laundering, and I don't dry anything and a dry or anything with those earth scent sheets. I always put everything outside, dry them and then I put them in like some carbon scent locked proof bags. 00:04:36 Speaker 1: And so do you on scent control? On your wind? Are your approaches to your stands? Even you know, we hear a lot of talk about that, like you know, you're you're hunting your stand, but then does your approach potentially you know it's half your property, now send it up? Are you thinking, you know, how does that How does that approach affect how I'm gonna get to that stand and where I think the deer at at that time? 00:04:57 Speaker 2: Absolutely like access is key to me. I've actually acquired a few acres that adjoined our farm that allowed me more access to my farm. I can go in and out undetected, and I was able to do that before, but having the ability to purchase at just locked that up and allowed me to access to some of my better stands and knowing that I'll always have that route now. 00:05:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm I'm going to be getting ahead of myself a little bit, but I want to keep kind of going on that. Do you typically hunt the perimeter of your farm or do you have some stands or some ground blinds on the interior. 00:05:35 Speaker 2: I typically hunt the way my farm or our farm is laid out. I typically hunt perimeters, and some of my perimeters that are in different areas of my farm, I will wait until the rut to hunt those stands because just of where they are located. If I'm going in there, I'm going to spend all day in there. I'm not going to go in and send it all up and walk through everything for two hours of a set. So that's just my my game plan, and it's it's it's worked for me in the past, so I try to stick to it. 00:06:08 Speaker 1: Yep. And we'll get into it later. You got you know, Randy's one of your neighbors. We've had Randy on the podcast. We talked about the property. We get to here, and so we'll talk a little bit about having good neighbors and whether you don't want to mess up his hunter where maybe his deer coming from. So I know you guys probably coordinate there, and you know, knowing your neighbor can can be a big because you're not fighting with your neighbor trying like I don't care if I blow into him. I want the deer, you know. So we'll get into that here in a. 00:06:30 Speaker 2: Little bit too. I've always said a guy's hunting is only as good as his neighbors, because if your neighbor doesn't have the same game plan as you are, you know management, as you say on deer age, you'll be latting four year old deer pass all day and your neighbor's shooting them. So it's it's really good to have good neighbors like Randy Rodney around us. My brother bought a farm across the road to and everybody on the same game plan really improves everyone's time. 00:07:00 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know Randy has an outfitter against adjacent to one of his you know properties, and that always provide you know a little bit of you know headbutting there or management, you know, difficulties because you're trying to grow big deer hitter age class, but they're shooting any three and a half year old that ends up on the other side of the fence, which makes a little tricky. 00:07:19 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it. It adds for some interesting talks in the evenings around that camp, you know. 00:07:26 Speaker 1: So yeah, all right. The second question from dirt how do you feel judge deer? Which has become important to me and I've learned a lot, you know, since I've been coming here because Randy, you know, as we just talked, you guys are trying to manage for five and a half year old deer primarily, but four and a half year old deer if the situation's right, or they're there, or maybe they want them out of the group, you know, out of the herd. But how are you when you're in the stand or when you're just scouting your property and looking at cam's like, what's your go to for philled judging deer for age? And you know, even I guess antler size as well. 00:08:00 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can tell a lot by a deer, I mean a lot by the size. Like you'll look at, say the brisket in front. If you've got a big brisket on a deer. It's kind of deceiving too with with the belly on deers because we do some supplemental feeding here, and so you know everybody's around feeding feeding good. So you want to look at the whole picture and not just look at one. Say oh man, look how much mass he has. Well, it could be a good four year old. That's could be a giant if you let him. Let him go another year or two. And so cameras have helped a lot. There's there's been many deer that I've had pictures of and I was like, I need to go see that deer in person, because a camera will give you a good idea, but seeing them in person, you can really judge him on the hoof better. And get your binoculars up, even if they're twenty five thirty yards away. Look at them close, I mean, because once once you pull the trigger on that release, there's no bringing it back. Yeah he's done. 00:09:04 Speaker 1: So yeah, And so are you looking at like the back line? Are you looking at belly line? Are you trying to look? Do you use like the face? You know, sometimes you'll start to look for roman nose or like just an old deer face, like you know, some one thing that we know. I'm throwing a bunch of questions out here. Once. One other thing we've talked about, Like growing up, you always talked about, oh, look the mass on that buck, he must be ancient. But we've kind of learned. The more I learned, I'm like, well, that's just genetics at to some point, or mom's health. So like, are there any other features? Face, horns, belly back. 00:09:34 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can look at the face. If it's a really old deer, their eyes will be sunking in, they'll be gray faced. It's it's a little harder to tell some summer hair on them, you know, but you can just tell Like the deer I shot this past year, I mean he was ancient. I mean I had a better deer underneath me when I shot this old deer that I'm anxious to see he made it through rifle season. I'm anxious to see what he's going to be be like this next year. But and that's part of what we do is kind of our community of neighbors here that we'll shoot the older maturity or rather than the one that would look better on the wall. 00:10:11 Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah, And so that was I was gonna roll that in. So if you see one hundred and eighty inch buck but you only think it's a four and a half year old, are you letting it go or you shoot like he's getting a past, you're gonna let a giant. But because I got to hunt my first year white, tell her you guys had a twelve point running around that and the pictures of him, and you guys sent me a trail camp pick and there's a I think it's an eight point with him, and the eight point is twice the body size of this little twelve body wise, and we got to see him the year after and he grew up and now he's kind of disappeared on you guys, right. But it was one of those things like that buck probably scored at one point there one hundred and six inches, but you guys like, no, absolutely not. That could blow up into a monster. You know, you guys were dealing with droughts and like, we just want to get him on one good moisture year and some age, and so you guys are letting bucks that you know, anybody be happy to shoot walk. 00:10:55 Speaker 2: And some people will find that hard to believe, but it was. It was an easy move when you know your neighbors are going to do the same thing. It's it's just the right thing to do to grow bigger deer. 00:11:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's it's awesome. And like I'm still struggling to comprehend it because you guys are willing, like you guys are hunting, and you guys love to hunt, but you're also there's a side to it that's like trying to grow as big a deer as possible, which makes it pretty unique. Like it's truly about how big a deer can our properties hold versus how big a deer can I shoot? 00:11:23 Speaker 2: Always, Yeah, and that's Randy, my neighbor. That's that's one of the things. We'll put in food plots and and strategize even our farms together to raise the bigger deer. And it's it's worked out well, I mean as well as it could be. 00:11:41 Speaker 1: Yep. Wow, I'm sure we'll get into more of that on management and the food plots and stuff in our conversation a little later. So the third question from Dirk, what is your opinion on mock scrapes with human ear and and how does what's your opinion on that? 00:11:56 Speaker 2: Yeah, we kind of laughed about this a little earlier. You know. I've heard of that working before, and I've actually seen it firsthand one time. I actually was hanging a stand one weekend. I think I was in college and came back and was hanging a stand and had a buddy with me that had never really hunted much. And I turned around and he's over there leaving himself ten yards from my new stand I'm hanging. I'm like, what are you doing? You know, And I'm like, going, man, I'm gonna have to let this cool off for a while. But the wind was right the week later when I came back. I think it was probably like the first or second week in November, and I came back and the woods were just tore up around that. So I'm sure you know, and I've read magazine articles and everything else where once that. Not to get too scientific, ammonia or whatever it is, it's coming off of the urine. It comes off of both humans and deer and then puts the aroma out. And it must have worked because it wasn't that torn up a week prior when I hung the stand. So but I typically I don't do that. I'll I'll do other methods. I'm I'm trying to be as under the radar as I can. I don't try to leave any scent or leave anything behind. 00:13:09 Speaker 1: And yep, yeah, and that's you know, not necessarily as woodsman, but like yeah, you just you're being You're going the extra step, like you don't want to risk that it will work, but if it doesn't work, you don't want to, you know, risk that because you know Randy or good buddy, like you know, oh you pe out of your stand, no need to get down and need to bring a bottle. And to me, I'm like, what if what if I drink some supplement or or had some vitamins that like give an off scent, and h I just yeah, I. 00:13:36 Speaker 2: Don't want to risk it our asparagus the night before, you know, it doesn't And I always pack an empty bottle. I have one in my bag and just in case I want to stack the deck in my favor. Yeah. 00:13:47 Speaker 1: And then the piggyback on that we noticed around here. You guys use some of those big one inch you know, inch and a half ropes at your guys's scrapes. Can you you know a little bit about that versus like using natural licking sticks or along the field edges. 00:14:01 Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of times we'll put cameras on those rope scrapes and then also have them, you know, within range of your stand. And what that does is you take a rope and you light it air out for a while ando inch diameter, and then you can put some some scent on it. And then the theory is every buck that comes around will smell that. It allows the wind to blow through it, and that rope holds holds the scent a little better, and we have seen a lot more activity on those scrapes just it holds better than a regular branch, I think. But it's just something else to have in your arsenal, you know. 00:14:44 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you. You're taking those questions from Dirk here. Once again, if listeners, if you have a question from here my guest, feel free to email them to us at CTD at phelpsgame Calls dot com, or send us a message on social and we'll do our best to get them included here. So, so now we're gonna kind of jump into my discussion I wanted to have with you, Brock, and I'm still relatively new, So I preface this whole thing like I'm I'd always joked I would hunt white tail when I turned seventy and couldn't hunt meal deer and elk anymore and walk around. But I got the invite from Randy a couple of years ago, and I'm kind of hooked. It's it's new to me there, it's a it's still hunting, but it's a different game, you know. It's a different chess match than we play with meal deer or elk or anything else that I hunt. So pretty new, but I wanted to kind of jump into you know, I've got to talk to Randy about white to hunting, but haven't necessarily had you on and kind of see what you think about, you know, whitetail hunting. You know, you growing up, it's what you see ninety percent on TV, and it's like, oh, this looks super simple. You know. It's like the druries get up in a redneck popped up out in the middle of the field, and you can But as the more you learn, the more I'm here now for two years, hopefully I draw a tag this year and come back for a third year. 00:15:52 Speaker 2: There's a lot. 00:15:52 Speaker 1: There's a lot involved, you know, and you can't oversimplify it like, oh, a big buck just wants to breed, eat and avoid conflict and exposure. There's a lot more to this. You got to, you know, try to get the deer to be that big to begin with, you know, number one. Number two, get them to an age, which you guys would talk about management number three, and then during hunting season have a chance to get to them, you know. So there's there's a lot to it. When sets, you know, travel, corridor scouting, all of that. So I really kind of wanted to jump in and have a conversation with you. But what we're gonna start with is more of that calendar of a whitetail hunter or a whitetail property manager I guess as well, And what are those major milestones throughout the year. So if we kind of just started in January, like, what are you doing as a white tail hunter? You know, you you live here, Randy, you know, travels back and forth quite a bit, but like, are you doing anything in January, February March? 00:16:41 Speaker 2: Yeah, those those early months January, February March, those those are the months where I like to make sure that our deer herd has enough food to make it through the harsh weather. That's when I really start putting the men. Men start putting the minerals out later in those months. But I make sure they have food, you know, whether it be corn or other supplements. Nobody's hunting them, there's no pressure. I want them to feel safe on my farm. And what that also does it allows me to then, you know, ease around my property and look for travel routes. By this time, you know, of course, all the vegetations off you can see, you can see deer trails, you know, long ways away. So it's it's nice to take a look at those and and just get a feel for what the deer remo are doing now, because you know, you can have an ice storm or something and have limbs come down and it changes travel routes. And it's that's where you can really you know, far as taking care of the herd and making sure they're being fed good, and then looking to see how they're moving, and that just gives you maybe an edge up come come the fall, you know, So. 00:17:51 Speaker 1: Are you are you taking advantage of moving stands as type? You know, are you gonna move? You know, I hear a lot of people talk like February March April. 00:17:59 Speaker 2: Yeah, I will. I will get a standsite prepped. I'll have some limbs cut and do some stuff then, so then when it's time to hang a stand, I'll usually wait till middle part the summer, of course, probably when it's the hottest, but and spray down good so you won't have tick scrolling all over you and go hang that up. So all I have to do is really hang my ladder and my put my lock on and ready to roll come middle of September. 00:18:26 Speaker 1: And so you're prepping those sites more so. And now do you shed hunt your ground or your betting areas? Are you one of those guys just want to stay out of there all the time. 00:18:35 Speaker 2: You know, it's it's been since I've shed hunted my betting area on our place, it's probably been two or three years. I usually we have quite a few acres of row crop, so I'll I'll check out the crop fields and then the surrounding areas around them. But I seldom go into the bedding area, but I know some guys do. I don't think it really at that time of year affects it too much. But if I was gonna do that, I'd probably wait till I made sure that everything had dropped and before it started greening up. So you're talking, you know, late February, early March typically, so just one day in there, one day and one day one or two passes through there and back through and uh, that way you're not running everything off. 00:19:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, I get a little nervous. Me and Dirk. We're talking yesterday, you know, we we kind of trumped. We had some birds goblin we started with and then up top and I'm like, man, sometimes I wonder if we shouldn't just stay out of here, you know, or not walking through here. But you know, it's a dual purpose farm. You're hunting deer and and turkeys. But sometimes you're like, are we are we messing anything up? Or if there's a big buck bedding in here, are we gonna mess them up? You know? And I don't know how much pressure you can put on them here, you know, in the middle of April. Do they care by season or do they does that like register with the big buck, Like I got bumped here in April, Like maybe this isn't as safe as I thought. 00:19:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. I don't I think in that time of year. To me, it doesn't affect them as much as during the hunting season. I think they have a shorter memory than what a lot of people give them credit for. 00:20:05 Speaker 1: Gotcha, Yeah, we had the night I shot my bird back there, we had a buck about five yards away from us, and you could see he was gonna, you know, big basses already and he was about this tall. And I hope that doesn't like mess him up. I'm sure it won't, but you just hope it doesn't, like, yeah, make him Philly's not secure there. So when you talked earlier and the questions of the dirk or in the intro, I can't remember, but you had a good buck last year that you passed. When when will you like pick him up? Or I mean about what time? You know? Is it may June horn size? Like all right, I got him? Or is he gonna be in the same area and can for me still alive? You know? 00:20:55 Speaker 2: It's it's funny because you know in years past, like the largest year that I shot, I had pictures of him in a counter with him the year before on the total opposite end of the farm diagonal into the farm. I'm a I'm a big believer. I'll run cameras as much as I can. I may not in the summer months. I may not go in and check him for two months. But you know, batteries are cheap, and the whole scheme of things, even though they've they've gone up like crazy like everything else. But we run some sale cams too, and there's not a lot of seal service on my farm, so I've got to pick and choose where I want to run those cameras. So they're just not dying within a week. But for the most part, he'll be he'll be close, and if he's on my farm, there's more likely I'll have a picture of him, and then I'll start a game plan for that. 00:21:44 Speaker 1: What's in your opinion, what are the what's likelihood that if a deer's been on your farm he'll leave, or that if a deer wasn't on your farm he kind of shows up or can you tell like sometimes as a buck just blow up once in a year, like hey, where did this deer come from? Or did he come from some adjacent farm and just end up there. 00:22:00 Speaker 2: Yeah, occasionally we'll have deer and like, man, we'll get once you say once again, we'll get with the neighbors and like, hey, do you have a picture of this deer. There's there's there's transparency between all of us as neighbors here. If we have a good deer, we're sharing it with the other guys. We're we're just as happy as if the other guy shoots it as we are. So that helps you too strategize saying, hey, I had pictures of this deer last year and he was three and a half last year, he's only four and a half. We need to let him go another year so they stay. I mean, and like I say, our farms together are what there's there's probably fifteen hundred acres here, over fifteen hundred acres that we're managing together, so that it's a unique, unique situation. I'm blessed to be a part of. 00:22:48 Speaker 1: Yeah, good neighbors and and you know, similar management styles definitely, you know, help are you are you gonna go out you know in the mornings or the evenings and you know, let the binoculars do the work. You're gonna try to just leave those deer and pressured when they're when they're getting a bite to eat out in the in the ag. 00:23:04 Speaker 2: Usually i'll i'll, i'll take like we have miles sections around around here. Usually drive around the evening times if there's soybeans out, and take binoculars and it's a fun activity right before dark to see what's around the way way our farm lies. It's kind of hard to do that because it's off the road a little way, so I typically don't do that much behind behind our place, but uh, it's fun to see just you know, a mile up the road you can see some nice, nice deer out on the bean fields in the evening for dark, and you know, it's not that far to go three quarters of a mile and they're they're they're on your place, yep. 00:23:47 Speaker 1: And and what time what time around here, you guys, is deer finished out or you know, you can start to figure out what's around. 00:23:54 Speaker 2: Usually by first middle part of August, they're there. They are what they are. You can see the bulbs on the end of the the the the racks are thinning out, and they're gonna they're basically size is done and then they'll just wait for the velvet to fall off. There in their bachelor groups. 00:24:13 Speaker 1: And do those do those bucks that are running together they start to split it about that time when their velvet starts to fall or they split before that. 00:24:20 Speaker 2: Here, No, they'll they'll still be together, and then after the velvet comes off, they'll start their pecking order. 00:24:27 Speaker 1: And and is it that the point where you try to start to figure out, like where that big bucks wanting to hang, where he's betting, where he's coming out is about that time middle August. 00:24:38 Speaker 2: Or later later than that. 00:24:40 Speaker 1: So it's gonna still it's gonna continue to change until what time. 00:24:44 Speaker 2: I would say when they'll start losing their velvet, usually around first week two weeks in September. I mean you can still you can still well, like that big deer I shot almost ten year years ago. Now, I was wanting to try to get him in velvet just because he was so impressive, And so he stills caring velvet up in the middle of September. So it just varies a little bit. And I'm sure you've heard us talk about We've had a deer here on our farm that was was in velvet year round too. It was kind of unique. 00:25:20 Speaker 1: So gotcha, is your opener always September fifteenth or is it float on like a Saturday man? 00:25:28 Speaker 2: Even if I'm after a good deer, it's usually in the middle of September. I don't know whether what day it usually falls on. I don't I'm usually not that exactly. I'm usually not biting my lip that that anxious. But yeah, I just look at the website and see when first day we can go. And like I say, a lot of times, even if you have a good deer coming in, you'll look at the weather and it's hard for me to get excited if it's ninety degrees right, like you're sweating, and I just don't want to mess up a good stand if I got a good deal. 00:26:03 Speaker 1: So you're you're gonna wait. So so when are you gonna finally get in the stand, whether if you've got a great buck? Is it when weather drops cold front? Like when when does brock Shelton Sarah, I'm I'm getting dressed up. I'm going up in the stand. 00:26:17 Speaker 2: Yeah. First and foremost, I look to see if the wind's right right, Like I don't mind setting on a stand if you know, I'm doing surveillance and lungs of winds right and I'm not messing up, messing up the farm or the stand. There's I'll look at the wind. I'll look to see the pattern of the deer. I do a lot of Uh. I just watched the deer movement a lot by by Sell sell cams uh and and regular cams. If if I've been in there lately to pull the card, but you you can. If you've got a good deer coming into a spot, you don't want to go in there. If he's not coming in, you want to. You want to play like I say, I always say, you want to put the cards in your deck over there. You want to. You want to make sure he's coming in. You want to make sure the wind's right, and it's always better if you if if you got a front coming in, it's those are those are key factors and you can get a lot of good movement that way. Gotcha? 00:27:21 Speaker 1: So pre rut is are you gonna like October fifteenth? Are you going to start getting the stand more and more? Is that? Is that pre you know, end of October rolls around. As long as the weather and the winds right, you're gonna be out. 00:27:32 Speaker 2: Yeah, uh I will. I'll look at my activity and everybody talks about the October lowell here in Keynsas the last couple years it's been colder, the first week in October than it has the first week in November, which is is odd, you know. So yeah, I can remember, you know, on November I think seventh, a couple of years ago. I guess it would have been in twenty twenty. Uh, shooting a buck and it was seventy degrees. I was in a long sleeved T shirt. Was all but h October, you're you can have some deer starting to move. But yeah, it's but if you got a cold front coming in, they'll they'll really pick up the pace a little bit. So it's I just I just watch and see what the deer moving on cameras, and I'm real big, and if nothing's moving, I don't want to go in there and and stink up a stand. 00:28:28 Speaker 1: Gotcha, So you'll wait until he shows on that on that area. 00:28:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's usually enough stuff to do around the farm that I'm I can keep busy and wait till everything's right and in my favor, gotcha. 00:28:39 Speaker 1: And then if you still have a tag as you get towards that people maybe I'll ask like, is there a favorite time or is it just when that weather in that cold front with the right wind and the movements there is that. Really the doesn't matter as long as those three things are there. 00:28:52 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think weather is huge. I think it plays a huge part on a lot of things. And I just try to stack everything I can in my favor, whether it be the wind, the temperatures, there's so many factors and all that helps you. And it gets the deer up on their feet or too right, if it's colder, they got to get up, they got to go feed. So yeah, I know it's kind of generic, but if there's no movement, I don't want to go in there. 00:29:21 Speaker 1: No, that's it's fair. I mean sometimes we get we get accused of like oversimplifying, calling elk or what we did. I'm I know you got to find them, you get close, to get the wind right, and you hunt them, you know. So No, I completely understand. It's like, you know, you need to movement. You need the deer obviously, you need the wind to be right, and then you need that little weather that maybe gets them on their feet earlier, gets them to the food, you know, before it gets dark or whatever it may be with that weather. Is there something you preferred, you like the very first twelve hours of a cold friend, is it the first twenty four or forty eight, like if there was like an optimal time in your opinion, like, what part of that weather change is it that's better than the rest. 00:30:00 Speaker 2: I've always said and rain, and I've talked about this a little bit my neighbor, that first cold front and season, when season starts, deer are going to be moving, and it just gets them on their feet, lets them know that, hey, it's getting close, you know. And so I've always had great success even even just seeing a lot of deer that first cold snap of the fall, that it just it just seems to like trigger things and get things moving. I really enjoy that. And you know, that goes back to the big deer that I shot. It was October first, and it dropped down to forty degrees that night, you know, which is pretty moderate, you know, but it was colder than what it had been and the timber was just alive. 00:30:48 Speaker 1: Does it matter if it's a when you say cold, friend, are we talking like a ten degree drop? Are we talking like a twenty or thirty degree drop? Usually twenty degrees. If you can get a twenty degree drop, you'll just get that much more movement. The colder, the older differential the better. There. 00:31:02 Speaker 2: Yeah, the bigger the delta te the better. 00:31:03 Speaker 1: So now where you thinking not to keep harping on this question, is like the first twenty four are going to be better than like the fourth day of a cold front or the third day of a cold front, or are they all pretty equal once you just get that that switch. 00:31:15 Speaker 2: I like the first because it's it's kind of a shock to them, you know. And but by the fourth day they know that, hey, I'm gonna have to feed more, which is still good, but that that first is it's just they're like, hey, this is this is the kickoff, right, we need to we need to get moving and yeah. 00:31:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so we talked you know the little little bit that pre rut peak rut. If you if you still have a tag, you're you're playing the same thing. You need the movement or you just even with out the movement now you're going to be out there because it is so chaotic. 00:31:45 Speaker 2: Yes, So I've always said when I was younger and didn't have cameras everywhere and sell cameras, I loved I loved the first first week in November because you you had deer running around. They were looking for the dough that was in. And as I've as I've gotten older, and I guess been around the deer heard longer. Now. I say the rut is the best time if you don't have a deer to hunt, because then you might have the neighbors deer over on ya. I say that, and we still I know what the neighbors have, but we share pictures. But you know, some of these other guys that are hunting eighty or one hundred and sixty acres. If you don't have a good deer on camera, I'd say the rest of the time you need to be hunting because the neighbors deer may be chasing one of your doughs back over on your farm and you've got a nice mature deer in front of you. 00:32:36 Speaker 1: Yeah, last year when we were here, so the first year we came, we were more of that pre rut, maybe just getting towards the peak, you know, early first week in November last year we came. I don't remember that we were here on the fifteenth and went right up until Thanksgiving maybe the twenty third. And I decided I don't like the peak rut as much as the pre rut because everything was either running by it at thirty miles an hour or they had a dough pushed up in some little nook her cranny and he just wasn't going to leave it. And so you had a lot of you know, small to medium bucks on their feet. But those big bucks were all kind of you know, in that lockdown phase, and we weren't seeing a lot of movement last year, you know, right in the smack out of that rut. 00:33:13 Speaker 2: Yeah, that happens. The big deer will have run off all the little deer and the little deer running around looking for the next dough that the big deer's let go. But yeah, it's it's it can be very difficult. It can be frustrating. I mean, there is no pattern during the rut as you guys know, you know. 00:33:33 Speaker 1: Do you lose some of your big deer off of cameras for two or three days during the road or maybe for weeks at a time. Yeah, they're just you don't know where they're aut on your farm. 00:33:39 Speaker 2: Or well you think they're not not moving, but they're moving. It's just in a little you know, three hundred yard area because they've got a dough, they're tending a dough and they've I've seen a buck push a dough up against a rock wall fence and keep her there all day, and I'm like, well, looks like I'm hunting all day because he's eighty yards away and I'll wait on him. 00:33:59 Speaker 1: So yuh yeah, It's it was crazy, you know, we had a buck across the road here in front of Andy's and all of a sudden you ended up way over by your house. And it's just that's the kind of movement you'll get, Like it just happenstance that Randy owns both pieces of her has the ability to hunt both pieces of property. But if that wasn't both of your pieces, like you would have got a giant off of your neighbor you know that's a mile away, Yes, which is a good thing, but it's also a bad thing if you have specific deer on your property, but you may not have access to him because now they're you know, stuck on those all day. 00:34:32 Speaker 2: Well, and then I think a lot of guys too, I mean, everything happens so quick. Like we talked about before, you can spend all year doing food plots, doing everything else, and it comes down to a split ten seconds. You got to make a decision, and cameras have helped with that because you know the deer, the characteristics. I always got a kicker off this G two, that's this deer. I know he's five years old. But on deer that you don't have any history with, and he's coming by, like you say, running mock mock three by your stand, You've got to make a quick decision whether you know, hey, it's just an old deer or a young deer. And that's probably the hardest thing I feel about the rut is making decisions on deer that you don't have a history with, you know. 00:35:15 Speaker 1: Yeah, in your opinion, Like if you have to put a percentage to it, how many deer, how many of you and you guys have, you know'll paint the picture. You guys have what I would say, very well maintained and managed farms. Right, you have the food, you have, the fall food, you have, the spring food, you have the betting. How many how many percent of your deer do you lose during the rut? Do you think you know, half your bucks leave or twenty percent of your bucks leave or hardly none? Or do you guys get more during the rut? Do you can you put a number to that. 00:35:42 Speaker 2: Or we have a lot of doze too on our on our farms, and we've been trying to manage that and bring that number down a little bit. But I would I would venture to say that. You know, it's it's hard to put a number on how many you lose because a lot of time they're making big circles they can be on like for instance, they could be on Randy's farm in the morning and mid morning on our farm and they could just make a big loop and they're just running. It's a big drawl in between us. So it's it's it's hard to put a number. But yeah, they're they're running all over crazy, So is. 00:36:17 Speaker 1: It best just to assume they're around? Like is that the mentality you have to go there? Like I'm going to hunt this buck if I got the right wind, there's always a chance during that peak rut that he's there. 00:36:26 Speaker 2: Yeah, especially during the peak rut when I mean it, it's hard to it's hard to pattern or do anything rational with them because they're just all over the place. 00:36:36 Speaker 1: That well, that that's kind of and then going into the last part would be late season, you guys go all the way to the end of December, if you for some reason still have your tag, which typically you don't have your tag at that point. But what's the hunting look like there? Is it back to food source? As soon as that ruts over. 00:36:53 Speaker 2: There, they're they're back on food. If you've got standing soybeans or or corn, standing corn where you can go in and bush all some of it off, they'll be piling in like by the groves. I mean, they're food is key. The those bucks are trying to put weight back on. And then those dose too. They've been being chased around everywhere that they're looking for food, and everybody's coming back into the food. It's so key. 00:37:20 Speaker 1: Looking for a big egg. And then something that is legal in Kansas is supplemental feeding. You know, whether it's protein feeders or corns. You know, I call them the corn spinners, whatever they are. You guys, you know do some of that supplemental feeding. How do you you know what's your opinion? I know you said back in the day you didn't do very much of it at all, versus like where it is the day. Maybe I'm gonna I'm gonna turn this conversation not necessarily whether it's good or bad, But how do you think it affects the deer? Is is it ultimately good? Is it maybe you know, are there some negatives? Or is it maybe just in that neutral? But it does make sure that the deer going to the winter healthier. Like what's your opinion on this? 00:37:55 Speaker 2: You know, feeding, well, you know it's it's kind of a double sword because you have say, say you have a farm and all your neighbors are feeding. If you aren't feeding, your deer numbers are going to be significantly reduced. Because I mean, it's like going to a buffet or you know, going to having to order one burger at a time. It's you're gonna have to do it just to maybe you know, keep up and have a whole block of guys doing it kind of keeps everything together. I use it more as a supplemental. I don't necessarily hunt over it because that's just not what I enjoy doing. You know, I'd rather I'd rather go into the timber. And but I also think it's beneficial for the deer herd as a whole. I know, as far as it's not just corn, we're putting out minerals, proteins, trying to make the deer healthier, you know. So it's I think overall it's a positive. At first, I was hesitant to do it, but I think overall to positive. I've seen our deer become healthier. But yeah, it's just my take on it. I think it's it's it's supplemental right. 00:39:12 Speaker 1: You guys still have the food plots, you guys still have the good agg you still have the great underbrush. You know, these deer can browse all day long. That's just more of a supplement, you know, to add that back into their diet and kind of boost it. So there's still everything else they need here. They would survive without it, but it is making them healthier, you know, getting into the winter. 00:39:29 Speaker 2: Right because I'm in the belief that I don't think big deer like coming to feeders. So that's that's just my belief. And I'll hunt those deer on other parts of my farm and just supplemental feed the doze and the younger deer. You know. 00:39:43 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've hunted. I mean we've hunted around them, you know, on the super cold mornings where I'm not in the stand. You know, you're in the red necks, you're going to freeze to death. And yeah, the dose may come in, the fawns may come in, but those bucks are like scent checking that two hundred yards off, you know, just seeing if there's anything there. And then they'll you know, you'll catch a glimpse of them cruising, but they're very reluctant to ever come into that thing. 00:40:03 Speaker 2: But they'll they'll feed all day out in a food plot. That's that's what. Uh. You know, Randy really got me involved with the food plots, you know, before I dabbled in it. And here's some you know, we were planting beans that year. Our farmer was plating beans. I'd try to have clover in there and have it for a couple three years and just trying to diversify the food. But with Randy, we've taken it up a notch or too far as the food plot programs and and you know, providing more food for the deer throughout the whole year. 00:40:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I got I got it right around with them there a couple of days ago, and we spread your your one, your honey hoole with you know, I think we killed the winter wheat and all the broad leaves and so yeah, It's I love that part of it, Like you are doing work and the work results, and you know that clover that I'm sure within what a couple of weeks that clover will be doing better and you get a good rain and that clover is going to fill that whole entire food plot. 00:40:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, we killed that winter wheat and put down some fertilizer for that white clover and uh should be yeah, say a couple three weeks. It should expecting rain this week, so it should really pop up and uh rain. And I've always said, you know, this is what's fun, is doing all the food plots and the prepping and you know, getting everything ready, and the icing on the cake is you know, having big deer there and then the ability to harvest me too. 00:41:31 Speaker 1: One other quick question on the food plots. You own the you know, you and your your brother and sister owned the farm, right, and but you're kind of at the mercy of the farmer, right your crop your agfields are does that ever end your like darn it. I should have just planted those myself this year, because this year you got stuck with milo, right, which is basically not going to be to your benefit. 00:41:52 Speaker 2: Hunt. I've been doing a little research. I think Milo has has a little like a two week window where it's very very palatable. And I've seen this, you know, neighbor raising Milo before. So it just makes it that much critical that our other food plots are are doing well enough to sustain and provide as long as they can. 00:42:12 Speaker 1: So will that make your your the honey holes? What maybe an acre maybe a little over an acre of a couple of acres? Yeah, so as the honey hole, will that make do you feel that that'll be that much better because that's going to be maybe more of an isolated, concentrated food source versus the you know, the your other one hundred acres of yeah, being maybe not as palatable. 00:42:30 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think it will help. It'll I think it'll definitely pick up the traffic in there because, like I say, deer eat Milo. But it's it's definitely not the one hundred acres of soybeans we usually have in there yet or. 00:42:42 Speaker 1: A fall a good fall source. Right, so it's going to be palatable when of prouts, which is going to be what may June. 00:42:48 Speaker 2: When, Yeah, it should be trying to think when that Milo he's he's already got it in the field, so it'll start sprouting in the next probably rain to get some rain. 00:42:58 Speaker 1: So one other thing we while we're talking about food management is water. You guys are coming in two or three year drought pretty some of your drought. Yeah, this year, there's water in these creeks that we've never seen water in before, that haven't flowed for years. Do you feel it that water? Well, I mean, the deer have always had water, but does that water It's greener here than I've ever seen. Is that gonna, you know, add on five ten percent to the deer or is it just going to be good overall? 00:43:25 Speaker 2: I think I think that will help. It's getting us into these uh late spring early early summer months. If we can keep the water flowing in the creeks, I think that will help us too with like the you know, not losing deer, you know that like we have in the past. You know. 00:43:39 Speaker 1: So yeah, uh one thing we always love the It doesn't make the hunter, but it makes the hunt, you know, hunting easier. Let's just go into like specific white to hunting gear. You know, we you know we hunt elk, you hunt you know, my bow set up, my broadheads are picked four elk and this or that so white to hunting specific gear, like what's your archery equipment look like? Are you using the Spanna bulls? You're shooting a lighter set up? Are you still going heavy? 00:44:03 Speaker 2: You know, I've I've always as a younger guy, I chased speed years ago, and I still like a decent speed bow, and so my my setup is pretty light. I think I think my arrow and broadheads way around the three hundred and eighty grain grain. 00:44:22 Speaker 1: They're light, so ultra light for the western guy. 00:44:25 Speaker 2: Yees, yeah, they're they're they're super light, and I draw back sixty three pounds. But I've always been a shot placement guy, like and I'd rather not have to judge distance too much. Now then you know, you know, I'm older and I've got pretty much my stand sites nailed down. I could probably go hunting without a range finder, but I always like taking my rangefinder range finding a couple three trees areas around, so when the heat of the moment something came by, I didn't have to judge distance too much because it was pretty flat shooting bow shooting over three hundred feet per second with with the way you're set up and I do shoot mechanical broadheads. The deer I shot this last year was just an inch and a half mechanical broadhead. Don't have any tuning issues with it that a way, and it's it's worked, you know, It's just worked for me in the past, and so I'm one of these guys. If if it's working for me, I don't really want to change it. You know. 00:45:26 Speaker 1: No, that's you know, you're not trying to get through an elk, you know, broadsider. You know, if you make a misshapp and you hit a bone, so I mean, white tail. I've always been a solid guy, but you always wonder, like, hey, you know you you know, it is Kansas. It's windier than I've ever you know, so it's like, man, it might be nice to shoot a little expandable, maybe get a little less you know, head drift and you know all of that. But yeah, yeah, I've had great success with the solid iron wheels here, but you know, it's always like, man, it would be nice to have an expandable for for these things. 00:45:55 Speaker 2: Yeah, in the past, I actually even shot an inch and three quarter mechanical broad and it's shot. Placement is key, you know, the big deer I shot. I watched it fall over. The deer this last year, I hunt thick enough brush. I didn't get to see him fall over, but he went fifteen yards. So shot placement is key and if you're able to put it where you want to, and I won't if anything's questionable, I won't take the shot. That's just me. I'm pretty cautious and pretty safe guy. 00:46:30 Speaker 1: That like. 00:46:33 Speaker 2: Going back to that one deer I shot, I waited. I waited till he turned broadside. It was thirteen minutes, so it was a loan thirteen minutes, but it was it was a solid thirteen minutes looking at my watch. So I just think you need to be patient and not rush it because you owe the animal that. 00:46:51 Speaker 1: So I was going to go back. You should still bring a range finder in the stand. I know you do in case you have to stand on your tree stand seat and shoot out the back where you've never even thought about shooting before. 00:47:01 Speaker 2: That happened the year before last. That was that was a mishap that the first shot the deer was close enough that my top came actually hit my bow holder and so it forced my arrow to shoot underneath to him, and I was actually going to let him let him go. I'm like, well, it's not meant to be, you know. And then I looked and he was still standing there, and I saw him dripping blood, and I had actually just grazed his belly, and I saw that I need to do the right thing and finish him off. So I actually did some things I probably wasn't supposed to do. I stood on my seat and shot through a fork through the back of the tree. 00:47:37 Speaker 1: So, but the funniest thing was is I got to hunt that stand that night or the next day or something. And I'm not, you know, still new with this whole tree stand thing. It takes me a little bit to get comfortable. And I get up this thing and the ladder you have. I'm gonna explain this story. So his steps to get on this standard these circle steps, which basically you have to you have to stand in the you have to put your toe against the tree, so you've got about an inch that you're hanging on to. Yeah, and you so, first of all, I'm not real comfortableetting up there. Then when you get to the stand, you realize that the thing's what fifteen degree angle into the tree. 00:48:11 Speaker 2: It's leaning back. It's a comfortable stand of city and it's leaning back a little way. 00:48:15 Speaker 1: So I get up and they're not being super comfortable, and I'm like, and then he tells me, like, when you get up there, stand in the seat and look through the back fork where I shot, and I'm like, I'm I'm not moving. I don't even know how I'm gonna shoot a deer out of this. But it was funny. I think you told us. The reasoning was you made it so sketchy that your brother wouldn't want to hunt your best. 00:48:33 Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, Brett, Yeah no, And it's one of those where you know we do we do run safety lines, but yeah, I mean it. It is one of those deals where I probably need to reevaluate that that's that's the tree that that stand needs to be in and just not straight. It's just not straight. So but they make some stands now that you can level up and do stuff. And that's probably something I'll probably end up doing this year, is getting a bit are standing there. 00:49:00 Speaker 1: But because that morning, my very first day in the stand, I had a hunted out of a millennium that had like some side rails. Well, this is just a little teeny foam seat with no side rails and you're leaning like wanting to lean past the tree, and I'm like, ah, it wasn't real comfortable. But that's a great segue into my next question. Would you prefer to be in a tree stand or a ground blind. 00:49:21 Speaker 2: Tree stand every day of the week. I I've tried hunting out of a blind and it just seems like there's too many, too many spots you can't see blind spots, and I you know, if you have the right right gear, now you can stay out there in some pretty harsh elements. And I really, I really enjoyed. I just think you see more, You watch the birds, the squirrels more. And now, don't get me wrong, there's some days I'd rather be in a vine when it's twenty three and the winds blowing thirty you know. 00:49:53 Speaker 1: So yeah, no, I'm I'm with you. I I you know, some of Randy's good sets are a redneck or a ground blow, an elevated ground blind, and I feel like, yeah, I'm just everything's gotta be perfect. A deer's got to stand in this like five six foot window, where when I'm in a tree stand, I can shoot three hundred and thirty degrees around the tree, and I feel like I'm not gonna get picked off as easy. They're not looking at me. I feel like sometimes those blinds, they know they're there, and you get those doughs bob in their head trying to see if they'll catch and move, and you're like they know something. You know, You're just hoping that everything goes right. 00:50:22 Speaker 2: Well and with my luck, I mean even hunting out of the tree, I my top cam still hit a little bow holder that's like sticking out three inches from the tree. So who knows what I would hit? Shoot blind? 00:50:34 Speaker 1: The buck I killed this year trying to shoot out the front window of a redneck because he was out front but really close, like twelve thirteen yards. My stabilize, you know, being a Western guy, I shouldn't even have a stabilizer, but I just put my bow together when I got here, lift my bow up the stable like a tunk right off the front. Thankfully was so locked in on that dough he didn't care. But just stuff like that, like the blind, Like guess what if I wasn't the blind, my stabilizer would have been just fine. Yeah, but uh so closing you kind of hit it on hinted to that, like there's good stuff out there, Like are you after anything specific? You just want to be quiet and warm, comfortable, Like what do you what are you looking at when you put you when you decide what you're gonna wear to get through a hunt? 00:51:12 Speaker 2: Yeah, I run marinal Bas layers and then I layer accordingly. I mean, so much has changed in the last twenty twenty five years since I started bow hunting far as you know. It's like, man to stay warm, you used to have to look like the Michelin man. You'd be going through the woods. If you fell down, you wouldn't be able to get up type of deal. Now then all this stuff you can you can layer up and and really not be bulky or anything at all, pretty comfortable. And so I'll run marinal Bas layers and then alternate some tops and bottoms. You know, everything's you know, insulated now and it's it's really changed. 00:51:52 Speaker 1: Yeah. So you just want to be quiet, Yeah, you're quiet? Deal. 00:51:55 Speaker 2: Yeah, And to me, that's the greatest enjoyment out of out of bow hunting probably is being close enough to a mature deer and him not ever knowing you're there, you know, So that's to me, that's that's pretty pretty neat task. 00:52:10 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and and I you won't insult me on this question. I want your your honest answer. I know you're you know you're you're paying a lot of attention to patterning deer and where you think they are calling in decoys, like will you're on a call? If so, which one and how often and when? And then will you ever use a decoy or you're just not wanting to kind of what's your your take there? 00:52:29 Speaker 2: A lot of that depends on the situation. Like I if I'm after a particular deer and I know he's in the area, I don't want him to know that I'm there, so I'll be quiet. Now, say it's during the rut and I don't have a mature deer on camera that I that I want to hunt, that's when i'll If nothing's around, I'll I'll do the rattling sequence a couple of grunts, and I want to see what's in the area, because I don't think I have anything that's mature enough to shoot, say, so I'm gonna try to pull something from somewhere else to see, Hey, maybe maybe maybe they've got a deer that's bigger, you know. 00:53:05 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's when I tend to call, if you know, first in the morning there's good movement or you keep quiet, but it's when all right, I've been on the stand for thirty minutes an hour and nothing's going on, you know, crank up the calls a little bit. Or if you do see a buck passing by outside of shooting range, like it may be a last ditch effort. But I don't have the luxury you do. Like maybe if I knew I can go hunting every day or go back out like maybe, like you said, I wouldn't be as is apt to call. I would just stay quiet, like he'll eventually come by, because if I spook him out of that tree and he picks me off, now I've. 00:53:37 Speaker 2: Just screwed this place up. Maybe yeah, And you know there's there's a lot. I mean, i've called in deer before. I've called in a deer with that. It's on my wall with the dope bleat and a buck grunt. And I didn't have any pictures of him before. It was November tenth years ago, you know, and it's he was just shy one seventy. I mean, it was a great deer and called him in. It worked, there's no doubt. And you know, if you're hunting all day and it's boring to the middle of day, it's something to pass the time by, right, you might might get something in and you can learn, say it's only a three and a half year old, but you can learn how he reacts and where he's coming from, and it might not help you out down the road. 00:54:18 Speaker 1: I mean, we uh in that pre run year, I think it was May or November fifth or sixth, when we had got here and hunted and we hit the rattle bag out here behind Randy's and three bucks came flying in, and so it's like it gave you an opportunity. Now, maybe would a mature buck come, I don't know, but those three bucks that were more of that you know, three and a half year age came, you know, kind of screaming in, and you know, ultimately a big buck did come in an hour later. So did you hear that? Was he gonna come to that location? Anyways? But when one of eels is cooking, like what do you have to lose? It's a natural sound. Try it. But you know we're where we're grunting it bucks out of eight hundred yards away where you have the chance to come back. Like you're like, I'm still not going to blow on it, Like he'll eventually come by here and make a mistake. 00:55:00 Speaker 2: Yeah, it all depends on situation, right, Like it just you don't want to Like, if you're you're hunting a particular deer and you know he's gonna come by that tree, I would probably tend to be quiet. But if it's middle of the rut and you're looking for some action by all means, dear deer vocal, you know they'll they'll they'll respond and check things out. 00:55:22 Speaker 1: Got you all right, We're gonna we're gonna wrap this up. But I want you to give us, like in your opinion, Like, what's one mistake that white to hunters make every year that if they avoided, they'd find more success? You know that maybe something that's you know, taken as is the right thing to do, or you know, maybe mistakes that people made or maybe you made earlier on and you're you're hunting that you kind of cleaned up. 00:55:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, man, put me on spot. But I think I know my answer on that one is going to be people hunting when the the the everything's not perfect or I don't want to say perfect, but not in their favor. I mean you you may be doing more harm. Like I used to have to take a week off when I didn't live live here. I would have to take a week off and come down and hunt. Well, I thought, man, I need to be in the tree stand every wake and minute. Well, there's sometimes you're doing more harm than good if you're in the tree stand, if the wind's not right, if if you're going in at the wrong time and bumping stuff. I think you sometimes you're you're better off, say the wind's not right for the stand where you you're hunting a particular deer and you don't have another stand to go to, You're better off sleeping in that morning and going that night. 00:56:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, waiting for the wind to change it. I can't agree enough, Like it's your answer, but you know we're the same boat. We get one week and so you know, I don't. I'm I'm speaking for Randy, but I feel like sometimes he feels pressure, like he's got to have us in a stand morning and night, and sometimes like I think we're risking it or you know, and that's the case. Like if you had a target deer and they're a big deer he wanted to kill, or one of you guys or a buddy, it's like, man, we could be really hurting this area, you know, but we needed to be there. And so yeah, I think if you're especially if you're targeting like a specific deer, it may just be best to stay out until you get the right win. 00:57:06 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's that's key too. Is I think to maybe try to avoid that is maybe have some stands set up for all the different win scenarios, you know, access to those stands. But I think that's probably one of the bigger mistakes that a lot of guys make, is, Hey, I'm here. I need to be I need to be doing this. I need to be in the stand. I'm not going to kill him from the couch. 00:57:28 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:57:28 Speaker 2: Well that's true. But you're not gonna kill him if the wind's wrong either. Yeah. 00:57:31 Speaker 1: Well, this conversation brought up one more question I wanted to ask you, in your opinion on a big mature deer, do you have to give him any wind or will he eventually make a mistake and go against the wind when he like comes from betting defeating you know what I mean. 00:57:42 Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I think your opportunity is better if if he thinks the wins in his favor and it's say five to ten degrees out of his favorite. 00:57:51 Speaker 1: So you're you're hunting a pretty I don't want to say questionable whin because you just said you're pretty risk adverse. You don't want to screw it up. But you're gonna wait, You're gonna go out there and like, all right, it is a true east, and I think he's gonna come from you know, from the south, so you know, or even less, like I'm gonna give him as much wind as he thinks he needs, but he's not gonna catch me because I'm gonna kill him before he catches me. 00:58:08 Speaker 2: Before he gets to my wind coming, I'm gonna kill him. And and they're apt to move more if they think the wind's in their favor. And you you just tricked them by having your tree in the or you're staying in the right tree because we kind of going back to that tree stand where you're kind of feels like you're laying in a lazy boy tilting back that that's the tree it needs to be in I mean there's. 00:58:30 Speaker 1: If you're one more tree down, they'd catch it before he can shoot. 00:58:33 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's and grain, Like I say, I'll be fixing that that tree stand, but it's it's in the location it needs to be in. So and it's just details like that that you know, do you pay attention to over the years. You know when I was younger, when I was twenty five, I wouldn't have been paying that close attention to things. You learn things as you get older, or you should be and and you realize like, hey, I need to pay more attention to this. This is what's happening. You have more experience, and it's I think they just move better when they think the winds in their favor. But you you know it's you. 00:59:08 Speaker 1: Got Yeah, so you're your route in safe, Your tree stands safe to a certain degree. But you better not let him get if you're gonna kill him, you better not let him get past a certain area. And that is tough because that same tree be hunted out of. I did have some dose come out first. I'm like, ah, now they've got me. But if it was a buck, I could have killed them. So you're hoping like they get out of the field, get out of my way, and then you know, if it was a buck, you'd had to shoot him before they got there. So you are letting little bucks into your wind cone, your but you're kind of crossing your fingers that you kill the big guy before he got through there. 00:59:36 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, all right. 00:59:37 Speaker 1: Well, I really appreciate having you on here, Brock. It's a great conversation. Like I said, I really enjoy talking hunting with you. It's you know, you're a great you know, land manager. You guys got some giant bucks around here, a great turkey, great turkey hunting, and so I tip my hat to everything you guys are doing for the white tailed deer here in Kansas, and like I say, uh, a wealth of knowledge. You guys won't be able to go check him out on social media to check out all of his buck ex for his turkeys and and what he's got going on. But you're just gonna have to trust me on this one that the guy, uh, he knows what he's doing in the white toe wood. So I really appreciate having you on, Brock. 01:00:07 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. Jason enjoyed it. 01:00:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, take care of Thanks

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