00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely fog bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't predict anything, you know. With everybody out trying to get a big foot, shoot a big foot. A dude wrote in that he canceled his Guilly suite order and he includes excludes a photo of the Guilly suit he was fixing to get next to that famous Patterson film The big Foot walking by And dude, this Gillies is a dead ringer. Man, it was a smart move. Another guy wrote in with a craction about snakes, we're talking about this special news snake that got discovered from Mexico. It was like you hear about this peete, just a recap. So years ago some guys killed a snake and in its belly was an unknown species of snake. And it turns out it's its own, not only its own undescribed species, but it was an undescribed genus um. And I was pointing out how I was reading about how I had two packers. Now a snake guy, a snake biologist guy wrote in, what do they call those fellers? Not herpetologist, snake biologists, snake feller snake feller snack. I thought you were asking what I thought you're asking what they called? People? Are two peckers? No? No, but like, uh, you know ich theologist right, entomologists, entomologists? What is it snake herpetologists? Did I say that? Yeah? The first guns on a roll one role. Anyways, he said, this guy has a sentence, he says, most podcast he's generalizing, most podcasts that mentioned snakes have misinformation. For example, all snakes have two packers. So it wasn't as special. Snake is not as special as I thought. Did you know that? Be honest, I did not know that. I didn't know that either, not prior to read that email. What's the point of the second one? Yeah, I don't know. Oh it didn't he say it? This part of that email that I didn't. I said, No, matter the orientation of the snakes, they're capable of breeding. I think is the point of the two. But you know what's good? They can only be oriented so many ways. I don't So is there snakes? Man? They got all wrapped up capable from all directions. Like all the jokes we made about two packers last time is now less funny. Oh, it's way less funny. Yeah, no, it's just a normal plus everybody that knows about snakes or sitting there thinking how stupid to the jokes. Weren't funny that so nobody's found this species of snake alive, just dead and this one and here's the thing. The only they did the genetic work on it and what it was, I think they found in the seventies, like they did the work on it forty years later. But the assumption is still there somewhere. They think it's a ground dwelling snake that maybe feeds on insects. Guy rode in from France. He says, bonur, who can do a good one? Here's good? No, no, I've been there, I've been there. I feel like caw can do it? Get it, hit it like a little inflection. That's a beauty and the beast for him, that's very nice, he writes. And he says that he likes to hunt. He says, here here here about uh, we like to hunt thrushes. A thrush, he says, it's the top of the top to eat. Now, a robin, your typical red breasted robin is a thrush. But that's the thing, man, and you have to eat a lot of songbirds, Like in Italy they hunt a lot of songbirds. Yeah, but they've also like eradicated many many species due to their very taste. And I normally eat the normally eating things. Yeah, and so at some point they were like, no, no, no, trust me, bro robbins are delicious. Well, I think they were eating you know that four and twenty blackbirds, bake them in a pie peel, and the you know the Egyptians eight little birds. I mean there's you know, there's evidence of that. So you're saying they're eating birds, but just because they ran out of other things to eat, Oh, they definitely did. They think they were eating at all. Now a lot of it's gone. They're still eating little birds, and we just have because like the you know, the we have rules that made that not the case. But I'm sure once upon time here here you can eat English sparrows, which I've eaten because they're non native starlings, which I've eaten non native in street pigeons. Yeah there, I mean there are recipes out there for crows too. Yeah, there's a season on crows. But if you know you read the guy le Valden's um uh on one. In one of his books, he touches on growing up in France and he had this killer childhood growing up in this old castle in France. But he talks about like the coaching culture and the hunting culture, and um, you know, there are a lot of very well known poachers out there that we're able to kind of hold their heads high because it was like such a game to go out. Um, but they would like drag net fields a night for ground nesting birds. Basically it was like almost like running a human powder powered singer almost where it's like guy sits there and then they like pivot around the field and as these birds flush at night, they're coming up and into their net and then they just go straight from there to the markets. And yeah, the scopier talks a lot about all the birds. He's even got a big breakdown of all the different little birds songbirds and stuff off and like what they're good for and what they're using for. But here, you know, with the migratory you know, and there's songbird protections, which is it's something that happens here. The final always telling me that down east North Carolina they used to trot line Robinson, oh for for eating. M HM. Tell you what. Uh. When I was growing up, we tried to There's a kid down the beach from us who his parents called him j T. And j T one day was trying to catch Robin and with a baited with a worm baited hook and uh, that is what we call at the time is super set. He sat, so he set his hooked so aggressively that without the friction of the line passing through the water, that hook came back and snagged him right in the eyebrow. Because you know, like you said, the ones underwater, not a lot happens. But on land, what JT? Did he have a scar? Didn't lose his eyesight? I'd like to punch that dude and knows, to be honest with you, not over that. Oh it seems to be a history. Dude from Germany so speaking of speaking of fellows from foreign countries. But dude from Germany sends a big wadman child. Wait, what's that? Is that? Like a middle finger weightman child child that I feel like that's way off. It's not w A I D M A N N s h E I L He says, a big wadman child. Yeah, they don't Germany, they don't say Wadman, it would be like vot. I'm not even gonna try now is embarrassing. But you know, my old man, having fought in whiskey whiskey too uh in the European theater, never forgave the Germans. And when he was uh, when he would point out, when when pressed on this, he would point out he would he knew how to say I love you, and all the languages, many languages, and he'd say it, you know, with he'd put his good of a shine on each languages and for ursion that I love you, and how like beautiful would be like. But in German, he's like, what kind of people can't even say I love you in a good sounding way. Yeah, there's no talking about of it. Man. They shot at him too many times. Uh, this dude from Germany. Uh, he says, as a former former German infantry officer and a passionate hunter, he's talking about how we're talking about his safe handling practices, you know, like using your safety on your gun and whatnot like that, And he says it's very surprising to hear American hunters talk about this. I think a big part of the world is under the impression that all Americans have a cowboy mentality and are carrying around cocked and chambered gun all the time. You did a good job bringing light into the dark and fighting the prejudice that American hunters are careless. So big vat did you figure it out? Yeah, it's a hunting term, originally to congratulate a hunter on his success in the field. Very appropriate. You're gonna start learn how to pronounce that. You start using that, I know, hold on, listen, I think they're gonna stay. Oh that's great, it might come on. Let's keep going. Do you think it would? Let me see how it said? M Vachman sneel. That's not even child anyways. Uh is that urban dictionary? I'll say what it is. It's vets um segueing out of that. A guy wrote say that, man, it just he's he he says, it destroys the segue. When you point out that, he's like, that's not You've made it. Not if you feel like, hey, watch this segue, He's like, you've just negated He he equates, and he's trying to put it in language that I would understand. And he says, let's say you snuck up within twenty yards of an elk and then yelled, look how close I am? No iv himinly disagree with that guy. I feel like if you say it's a transition, you say it's If you're gonna make that statement, it makes puts more pressure on it, so you have to be better. It elevates your game. Oh. I don't agree with him at all, but I just want to give it. You know, he's a he's obviously a smart guy, and I just wanted to let him know that he's heard. And uh, I get it, but but it's he has to chake, o, stab and make convincing me um. And we're trying to have fun around here, and I think that that Oh, he thinks that there's fun to be had. He just thinks you should have a little tally and you can keep tracking. You can keep track, and then later you can revisit after the segways have served their purpose of seamlessly without drawing attention into the transitions. Then later you could be like, did you notice earlier? Yeah, Or the next episode Michelle could tally while she's doing technos, and then the next episode we can say so last week, Steve a whole separate segue committee that gets to vote on each each who has a slick of segways from that UM. A couple of guys wrote in about this thing HB, which is a bill in Hawaii. You're about this. It would prohibit you from keeping in Hawaiian prohibit you from keeping a firearm or AMMO in your hotel room in the whole damn state, which for a traveling hunter creates a lot of problems, lot of work for law enforcement, it creates a lot of problems. I mean, how's that going to be select individual? It was some exclusion, so I don't even know how I would deal with that. But I remember thinking, like some guy he's like fixing the he's like playing out a crime and he calls his bart and he's like, ah, I'm not able to do that crime after all, because this is a reading about how you can't come on. I went to school here in Montana at M s U and Bozeman and UH In the dorms they had a gun locker, and as a eighteen year old freshman in college, you could walk into the front lobby of the dorm and hand over your shotgun. A duck hunted a lot and my freshman year in college and I remember walking into my dorm and handing over my twelve gauge over the counter to the resident, uh you know, whoever was running the show in there, and they locked it up. I don't know if that's still a deal at at Montana State. This a resident of the r A. Yeah, I was handing. I was handing it over to in a dorm room situation. Correct, very similar to a hotel though. It's like if you were ten of a twelve year old, was your babysitter Like with this thing, It's like, what are they driving that you supposed to leave it out in your car? Better to put like if you're trying to drive at like having it not fall into someone hands. Yeah, yeah, uh you know. I remember in high school when they brought in the rule that you couldn't have guns on campus, and I would run my trap line after school. So I kept, I kept. I had one of those twenty gage twenty two over and under did everybody owned? You know? It was a marlin that little thumb thumb cocker thumb selector on it. Your barrels and you always mess that up cock cock jump up or like, you know whatever. Yeah, I messed that thing was a lot of trouble, but I loved it. But I remember that rule comes into place and I go marching down to the principal's office and talk about what to buying that was gonna put me into it. He's like, oh, I had don't worry about it. Yeah, just just like, oh yeah, well you times changed. Does they explain exactly what they're trying to um stop? Is it something after the Vegas shooting? Like there he didn't tell anyone. Yeah, that doesn't make me sense. They weren't like, oh yeah, bring them all up. I'm pretty sure you didn't ask the front desk for the commission. But yeah, I don't know what. I don't know what. It just seems I don't I don't understand it. It seems like another cluttered law and unecessarily putting people. It seems like you're putting uh people in a bad position. UM speak of that. A lot of people, a lot of people wrote in about just talking about like safe handling practices in general. Um. One guy who said he hunts with his in laws. In his in laws h are almost antagonistic towards uh what he regards like pretty standard safe practices, and he's got to the point where he's got to the point where he doesn't even like to be around him, and he can't bring it up, like, hey, you know, let's follow some safety protocols here, and you're like they shoot him down, and uh, he says, yeah, sorry, it's bad. Makes him uncomfortable. Another guy Rode. He says, I traveled to West Virginia for the holidays to visit with my boy's family and hunt with her great uncle. Now her great uncle is eighty his name is Jack. This guy, when this eighty year old dude was a little kid, he was out rabbit hunting with his uncle and a rabbit runs off and he doesn't get a crack at it, and the uncle chastises him for having because if you weren't using the safety, you to have gotten a shot off. So then he goes from the nineteen fifties to present day, Uh, refused to use the safety because of that one getting busted, getting his balls busted by his uncle all those years ago. Um, then this uncle, the uncle that chastised the kid for not getting the shot off at the rabbits, he's using his safety is out coon hunting and come morning he hasn't returned, so they send people out to look for him. Search party goes out in the Grandpa right there, the great uncle, the eight year old dude named Jack who was chastised as the boy. He's part of the search party that goes out to find the uncle who chastised him for using his safety And sure enough, he's laying there dead, a bunch of dogs running around. It's coonhounds running around by his side, and from the way everything was laid out, it seems as though he might leaned his gun against a tree and one of the dogs triggered it knocked it over something. I remember going out the group of guys. All this is when I was, you know, young, young, um, and it was one of those situations where, um, you're kind of setting up. Everybody sets up around a big canyon mouth that the elk could disappear into, and you're just kind of posting up waiting for elk to come out, hopefully on your part of the canyon where you get posted up as they started coming out to feed at night. And I'm the youngest guy by at least ten years, and you know, you're all sitting there and a you know, relatively smaller, and you're like, it's like, all right, somebody got something. Get the cuttings and all kind of got picked up, and and it's like, well, somebody got something. Somebody got something. And I'm like the young excited kid, like, well where are you? Where? Where is it? Where is it? Where is it? And I was like, oh, you know what, I didn't didn't didn't shoot anything. My gun went off because you know, I was all set up. I wasn't even looking at it and uh and grabbed the gun and the trigger must have snagged and went off, and I was like, well, deep, have your gun on safe, right, I was like, kid right out a hunter safety. And the guy proceeds to tell me in front of everybody that well, you know, Ryan, when you're in a really safe situation, it's okay to put around and have a safety off, and all the other adults are just kind of like and then like as soon as the group breaks up, my my buddy Larry grabbing me, was like, hey, Pard, it's like that guy rounds off all the time. Don't get in here that guy. I can see the I can see the not like like our general practice of not chambering around until things get real gamey. I could see that some people are like not going to buy into that. But the idea of the safety issue, I mean asking for trouble, I mean, how could you How could someone even make the point, especially with everybody read jigger in their triggers these days, everything's super hot. I'll put a key put a guy's land. It's uh see her a point eight pound trigger. Yeah, really, that's interesting. We had a backpack come into Stone Glacier for a warranty situation. That guy was sent it in. He said, a hunting accident. Uh, please fix this if you can. And it looked like a dog had chewed up on his backpack, a lot of a lot of little holes that kind of looked like, at first glance, looked like teeth marks. And I called him. I was like, did your dog get on your backpacks? Pretty normal for dogs to chew up packs and hca get blood on him? And yeah, probably number one number one destruction of packs is but real number one pack warranty absolutely, And my kids want a dog real bad. I'm gonna tebu backpack. So I call a guy, I'm like, so what happened, and I wanted him to fest up. This dog chewed on his backpack, and he's like, honestly, I saw grouse hunting with my wife. My wife leaned her twelve gage against the tree, knocked it over, twelve gage falls over, goes off peppers my backpack and it just live up his backpack shattered. The carbon stays inside of it and just put all these little tiny micro holes all throughout the framing bag. But that I interpreted as dog bites, but turns out it was a shotgun. Let's stays like every I feel like everybody has an accidental discharge story, whether it involves you or someone you know, Like, that's not it's not all that uncommon. We were standing in the Vortex booth a shot show here two days ago, and they have a scope in one of their you know, Vortex v I P warranty, Right, Yeah, they have like if you can find a shard, they'll send you a new skull. Yeah, And here's this scope and through the bell of the scope is a bullet hole. No, yes, And oh my god, what's the story on this. Well, it turns out a guy had shot his gun. No, I had taken a Uh. This it got sent in by um, a retailer right at a gun store owner. UM, and somebody had come in with a firearm and asked somebody at the counter to check it out, and and nobody during the course of this check the sea because bringing in a loaded firearm into a store and they put it on the deon and it guy ends up shooting case full of rifle scopes. See that's where like with the with the safe handling, that's where the part comes where like the whole part about muscle control. Yes, like if there was no question, did nothing accidental what ever happened, then you wouldn't have the extra layer of like the reason you don't sweep your muzzle around is because of the very real possibility that there are ways in which you could have So it's like never pointed anywhere, which which is an acknowledgement of you never know. And then all then the other stuff is all layered over that with the the mental idea of like where is it pointing in case the unspeakable. Well, here's something that came up with me recently, Like if you mount your stone, glacier has like a rifle mount on their packs. Most packed companies will make like a little rifle sling and you mount in your pack. And while that's great, I feel like I want to know my shoulder because if it's just on my pack and it's mounted behind my shoulder and I have no control of the muzzle as I would if it was slung over my shoulder. I can bend over to go under a tree, I can duck down to do this, and if I'm hunting with somebody, I have no control over my muzzle other than where my body goes. Yeah, I still like those things, though, I like it they're comfortable. I was kind of jealous on a recent hunt of folks that had them. But then you can see, like when you're crawling through some brush, you're you're digging around somewhere, like you're you're now wherever you're your shoulders points where your barrel points. That's a good point. Lots of dudes rolled recently a gun we're sighting in and rifles, and a fellows using my rifle and never used my rifle before, and it had three position safety. So I was explaining the three position safety. But this particular one is aftermarket, and so it's not if you don't have exactly in the middle position. If it slides a little bit forward out of that position, it's actually live, right, So you've got to be very careful that if you're gonna use the middle position of the safety, that it is in that middle position. And he had been handling the gun and then he came over to me, and we hadn't started shooting yet, and I assumed very wrongly that the goal was unloaded, and so I went we went to I went to explain to him how it worked within point in a safe direction, point in the the safe direction, and I flipped it forward to that to that spot where the gun will go off, and I said, see, watch this, I touched the trigger. Were you surprised? I take full responsibility because even though that person you can say, how you can say, well, no, that person had every right to have that gloaded. He was about to sit down at the bench and start shooting right. Um. I personally I was gonna start messing out with guns, and I had a loaded one, and I was going to another person and say, hey, bro, got one in the chamber here. But it's still up to the person that touches that trigger. That's we're talking about. What guys up. You can stand there in front of him, check it hand to him. He just almost right back up and checks it on his own. Oh yeah, yeah, you're like, dude, I just checked it as I feel like it. Used to be much better about it, because if we have young guys, open them up, you know the show, and then I'd stick my pinky in there to see if I could feel one, you know, in case for some reason your eyeball is I'm always fingering my rifles. That's definitely gonna be this podcast. But I always I find myself, even hunting situations, when I flipped the safety off I'm getting ready to shoot something, I'll say like going hot, even if no one else is there, I'll going live one hot because I'm just so used to. Every time that safety flips off and I know that I'm about to send one down range, I always in my brain is going hot, going live. Um. I found myself after somebody shoots something repeatedly, as you know, everybody's jacked up and excited, just got something, just grilled people like gun unloaded safety, and then I'll ask you again two minutes from now that gun is still unloaded because everybody's all jacked up. Everybody's excited to go get to the deer or whatever it is. It's remember it's very easy to racking on the one in and the gun never gets put on safety. Second, because you're thinking about a follow up. Yeah, that's a time when I've here, like just in our circle. Like when you get up to something and everybody's getting ready to do whatever and you're gonna start skinning. There's a lot of verbal checks around a lot of verbal checks around safety. I got one on that I wasn't hear for this, but I buddy of mind growing up. You'll remember the night disc rifle that was out for a time. It had a it was a muzzle or you put a shotgun primer in a little orange disk and then that you loaded that in and then the hammer. But yeah, it was a disc riightful for a time. And this he was out with the buddy skinning the deer, gutting the deer and he was, you know, had its legs played open. He was in the middle gutting and his buddy was coming over to check. He just walked up to check his check the bucks how big it was, and leaned over and the guy felt the muzzle of the gun like in his back and his liver, and he turned he turned around to be like because the guy was leaning over him to look like this, and had his had the gun pointed down in his back, he wouldn't paying attention the hammer drops. He just didn't have a disk, didn't have a primer in the muzzlo. If he would have had a primer muzzleloer, the dudeoel have been dead right there and then heard this, heard the hammer drop, heard the snap of the hammer and turned around to see a dude there with a gun pointing into his liver like point blank range. My my friend and co worker, Law, he will at Stone Glacier got shot in the guts when he was a kid by a h a green horn hunter. Yeah. Law grew up out in the sticks, out in Wildman and uh, they took a buddy out and introduced him the hunting. And I don't know if they were I'm gonna butcher the story if I don't know if they're hunting rabbits or whatever they were doing, but I believe it was a small caliber rifle like a two. And by the end of the horrible story, Lao had a twenty two bullet in his guts. Really yeah, shot in the forties, Yeah, with a shotgun, right, someone shot him to the the foot hunting rabbits. But I've never even like it's funny because I've never even seen like a close I mean, I haven't been around even like a close call. But got to hear about it, man, it's scary. Keep your stuff, malls of control. That'll solve all every one of those problems. Yea, every sorry treat every every it's loaded, every guns loaded. Yeah. Yeah, the gun club I used to belong to Washington, Dad like that some major general's principles or whatever. Well, the n A has a safegun handling wallss. Don't point at anything you don't always loaded, don't point at anything you don't intend to shoot, and never put your finger on the trigger until fire. Safe gun handling hard hard to mess up with those three rules. It rules out a lot of They're pretty foul. Everyone followed that we wouldn't be having the conversation. I got one of those Reming tants one time. I remember what maker model of the gun this is, But those Reming tans, when you flipped them from uh fire or safety to fire when the seven defense. I was trying to shoot a fox on Kodiak one day and got lined up on this fox. He's like two hundred yards away, and I flipped it from safety to fire and boom going one off and scared because you had a finger on it. No, I did not touch the trigger at all. There was it was people got shot. A lot of people in Montana. There was a defect and how there was years ago right this is. Lots of people wrote in about deer crawling. We talked about a guy that was saying, I watched the deer crawl on his knees across the power line cut. Our buddy, Steve Jones is a wild game chef, very good one. Um Me and Yanni have fed off his cookings. Okay, hope we'll get to do that again. Good dude, he says. Now, he says he similar sees three does three antlerless deer crossed the power cut on his farm, his fellers from Missouri. Two of them cross normal and yet as normal as any other deer. The third and largest, when she crossed the cut, she crouched down and slunk across the cut without pausing or stopping. Once she got across. She back up and walked away like any other deer. She was moving quickly en up. He's like, I'm positive she was not walking on her knees. As one guy that rolled in to say he saw a deer walking on his knees. It was just a deep crouch and it looked extremely weird and definitely appeared to be an attempt to reduce her visibility. Another guy rolled it and said another guy rolling and said he flat out watched a buck crawl on its knees. They were making a deer drive, and he's he looks back and his dad's coming through, and he watched the bucks go down and crawling on his knees for seventy five yards right in front of him. No one ever believed him, he says. When he heard us talk about, he says, he about drove off the road. I was wondering thinking about this the other day. I was wondering why the deer crawl? Why would it crawl across the power line? It's wide open, what do you oh, there's a lot of brushy power They're typically they're typically brushy. I was thinking of, like, okay, because all second growths, all regeneration man, I was just thinking staying keeping little pro and they know the people our eyes perched up on power That's one thing I've perched up on. More shot a lot of turkeys on under Yeah, we got a turkey this spring. I'm one of those super loud power lines and killed two out of there where you're like hun, You're like, you know, you're like trying to get into the peacefulness. And I was just like nature, it's electricities. But that's the thing, is like it's one of those like power cuts, one of those weird things where typically people are like, oh, yeah, any activity of man is negative. But if you if you live in some poor and I grew up in some poor, low grade, poor ass soil country where the typical like like a forest they're kind of matured into because sandy soils and kind of matured into like small white pines and bushy little scrub oaks like not rich place. But power cuts we're good edge habitat, man, Yeah, because it created it created brush, and it created edge habitat because you can go out in the woods in most places you look two d yards there's not a lot of cover. So power cuts like as a fur trapper, you, dude, you get it as excited about a power cut as he did a river. Things travel on power cuts. They called a lot of fox on power cuts because they can they can hunt the brush and there's usually like a little road down so it gives like a great game trail that runs down through the brush and everything would run upon. Yeah. I know a lot of guys that are put a tree stand up and see a power cut. Put a tree stand up. Every yeah, edge habitat, this is a break, a break and something in a travel corridor. Well, that dear that was crawling must not a thought. Well a guy might be in a tree, so you can see down either way whether I crawl or not. It's hard to say how much dear thought thought it. But it isn't not worthy. And I just want to acknowledge, Like I have a hard time picture it, but I want to knowledge that. If there's people out there debate at this point, a little bit of follow up to one, Yeah, he's gonna explain this one the Ohio a guy shot a gigantic white tail in Ohio in buck six points? Is this the world record one? Or that was not? It was? That was? This is the poacher poetry in Ohio. It's a little different. And he did a bunch of crazy stuff, like he had a dough and he like cut one's deer's head off and tried to like another deer, and he had all kinds of stuff. He was shady, shady. It wasn't like he messed up and made a mistake. It was like he was He killed a buck, saw a big buck, shot the big buck. Tried to switch everybody's heads around this weird stuff. It winds up like a super guilty, super guilty sound, super guilty seamen stuff and gets a fine. It's dollars Amish guy, that's right. Everyone likes to point out that the brother's Amish, But me, come on, if you as a descriptor, if he was Methodist, would that be a big part of the story. Well, he probably wearing you know, certain type of clothing. Well, they said he was unavailable for comment. But I feel like it's like a little It's like it's not respond to text me racist because it's not like a racial thing, but it's like a prejudice. Like people everyone's like Amish man. The headlines Amish man. It would never be like Baptist man. What is going going through mountain attacks. You know, they're the mountain lion attacks and in Washington, UM last year, and yeah, I'm searching through Google and they're all the exact same story, but one of the headlines, I feel, purely in order to make it stand out a little bit more, is instead of cyclist attacked by mountain lion, Jewish cyclist. Even getting like it's gotten this bad, the anti Semite cat. Yeah, I don't get like, like, I don't know, Amish might be more of a descriptor, like you could picture what he might look like. I know, but a little bit I'm like a little bit uncomfortable with. Um, I'm a little bit uncomfortable with I don't know what it's playing into. I don't know what it's feeding into. No, I agree, you're like, but it's a big denomin but it's like, I don't know, it just makes me like slightly uncomfortable. I would not be just a poacher, that's true. Like it's worse. You know, they keep it's a low profile maybe and maybe they're known to I don't know, to never do anything. These are the exact sties, right, No, I know that's what I'm saying. But that's what I'm saying. Why some one would I would say, well, you wouldn't believe it. It wasn't just any poacher breaking Sish the good you know, you know, the parable the good Smaritans. Well, um, dude, the good Smaritans. Samaritans were known as horrible people. So people always like, what you're saying is a good bad guy. Yeah, you're saying like these guys are the Smaritans are the worst of the worst. So yeah, blat of people don't realize that that's part of it. Like the Smaritans had a very bad I gather, I don't I hope I'm not offending any Smaritans out there, had a real bad reputation. And then so it's like the fact that one turns out being good, it's real surprising. So when you say, like an Amish poacher, I don't know if you're saying like these pillars of virtue or if you're saying it just goes to show you certain religious people. So we're talking about notice, so someone just wrote in to explain how they had come up with the dollar fine, right, yeah, which is a good story. Yeah, and in and I try to get ahold of the legal department over at Ohio Game and Fish. Should it calls you Pete, that's where you help from. Maybe you just say call Cindy. Um. But I couldn't get an answer on our They have a formula on how they figure out, um, how much to find a person. Understand it's exponential to the size of the antlers. The formula is gross score minus one d. That's the part that gets me and finished, yeah, uh to the second power times a dollar and sixty. So it's the So this box was a two twenty something. You act a hundred off and then square that number and times. I love the sentiment and of sure that someone could explain it. I don't get the part about was it like without taking a hundred off and not being like, man, that's a big fine. How can we make it less? And so I was like, well, let's take a hundred off then square was there how they calculated? No, we're trying to figure out where they where where it came from, Like where did the dollar sixty five come from? I'm sure that there is a repeated it's gross score yep, minus one hundred then square that number squared. So for example, we know that a two or thirty inch deer. It gets you about twenty eight thous dollars in trouble. And actually I did the mask to thirty ended up being a because there was some add on. Yeah, so let's just say you're not that lucky of a poacher to get into two thirty and you just kill a hundred fifty in and they started in Ohio. That's where they can That's when trophy starts. Oh so that's when it's like a different kind of poaching. I like the system, man, because I think if a dude, if a guy like shot him, if a guy shots a spike, it's just I don't know, man, It's like, I don't I'm not condoning anything, any kind of violation or poacher, but it's a guy that poaches trophy class stuff, in my mind, is a different kind of poacher than But I feel like this might be encouraging folks just shoot the spikes. Be like, hey, that spikes for us. You know, now that we've given the formula, it's not that bad. Okay, we run it out. But he shoots, let's say he shot you know you came from I think the state pays you at that point, that's what that's got to be. What it is, may well know what it is because the restitution, the trophy restitution doesn't kick in until it gets to a certain size. This is I mean, the way this is set up is that animal has been that belongs to the states, to the people of the state, has been costing the people of the state money as it grows, right, and by the time it gets into a trophy class animal, it has lived much longer and eaten much more, and it has a greater cultural value. That's the thought they're trying to recoup the grass the thing at oh Man, you're saying that we management is expensive. Okay, got creating a talking about his day to day diet. No, but I was expensive to the state. I think he's justify it very it's expensive to the state. It takes work an effort to have it situation which deer can become three, four or five years old. It's like it happens not by accident. Absolutely committed allowing it to happen, and you just screwed the whole thing up. And there's a lot of people who are paying real good money buying licenses and paying least fees and putting out tree stands, and all of a sudden you robbed everybody of that. Now you're gonna pay? What if you showed it? What if you shoot a dough it's probably a different So if you don't get the like trophy restitution. But then also I think, if I'm hearing you correctly, Steve, you are also like the odds of a man who is poaching because he is he or she. I suppose this poacher is poaching because they're starving to death and them happening to come up with a two thirty seven inch deer. Yeah, real lucky, real real unlucky. Yeah. I like, personally, I see both sides of it. I'd be like, well, it's poaching, is poaching, it doesn't matter. I see that. I also see that if you're out trying to poach trophy class animals, it's just the worst, like all crimes relative. Well, that it would make sense to me if there's like the baseline punishments and this is just an extra add on in case you're in in case that dear is bigger than or scores bigger than. Yeah, well, the exponential you know, the squaring really does a lot because the hundred fifty inch only costs you four thousand. Oh man, Yeah, they don't want you getting them. Bill Booners know, well, just even on like the the poacher, because you're starving to death. Example, right, even if you are poaching for big gas trophy class animals, likely not going to be your first foray into the poaching field and you're coming up with a two back. Yeah, even if you are a dead set on a big trophy class critter, you've probably got some real poaching under your belt by the time you come up with one of those. Yeah, you've actually got good at it. That's an interesting subject. You Everyone that makes its own gravy too, there's another poach in case it makes them gravy. You guys ready for this, you know? For I do that guy asked hum Ken make hog jerky without getting trick mhm. I gotta get it up to temp man. When I got reported, when I did, when I got trick analysis, Uh, you know, it's a CDC reportable disease. So you had to go down and they and and I was reported in King County. And the guy that got it before me got it two thousand seven. He got it from Mountain lion jerky. Oh, because if you're not bringing it up to temp, you're not destroying You're not destroying the ciss. So if you're making just like if you're taking trick positive meat or drying it at a hundred degrees good enough, you're still you. You're still susceptible to getting trick. So I'm assuming he's talking wild hog jerky. Yeah, you gotta bring it up. I haven't made a whole lot of bear jerky, but when I have, we just threw it in the oven and and and stuck it in the oven at two for long time, just to get it up to temperature. No, what do you got to think about the answer is, yes, you can. He's saying, let me. He says, can you make hog jerky without getting tricked? My answer would be, well, that that's a that's I don't like how it's phrased. Certainly there are plenty of can you know? If he said can you make hog jerky and be certain you will not get tricked, then the answer is no, can you make hog jerky without getting tricked? I'm sure it's been done. Is that a good idea? No, it's not a good idea because you are not killing the Yeah, mostly you're just gonna end up with a little more overcooked jerky than you'd probably like to have. Yeah, is not as good as jerky has been dried. What's the special number we go for to ki, Yeah, well sixty. I recently had a debate with someone where they're saying, uh, I was saying, you gotta cook havelina? Do you know of anybody getting tricked from Havelina? And I had to acknowledge that, No, I don't. They they're like omnivorous, they eat all kinds of meat. Yeah, I've I've actually, man, yeah, I've eaten there has to be a possibility I mean undercooked. I've meant undercooked Havelena. I mean like not undercooked, but under one sixty. I'm sure. I'm sure someone's looking to type that up. Yehnny, that's a good that's a good point. A trick from it's been it's been linked to walrus where wild pigs. Why yeah, why, Like you said, why would not mountain lions carry it? It's not like it's just a pork thing. No, mountain lions carry it. All that stuff, even like like weasels, rats, mice, there's no way that I have Lina, which are going to eat a dead dog if you let it, that's exempt from this is not getting it. So there's no there's no unglance that Carrie, now that I know of. No. Even though a white tailed deer have now been proven to eat birds out of their nests, people have seen it. So you wonder, that's crazy, man, if you got a deer out and your kids like people a little baby birds, come on, that's horrible. Tell dude, in Europe, even our even our deer song birds. Okay, here here's the here's the here's the poaching case that this is the one that I think makes it's gravy, makes his own gravy, and the way it's been covered is annoying. First, okay, this is a tricky one. This is a tricky one. So there's some guys in Prince Williams sound um and they kill a blackbird out it's den and kill some cobs out of the den. Now, a couple of things that are interesting. One they this den is under surveillance by fishing Game for a study. So these guys do it all on camera. Ah, so there's no doubt about guilt here to get him on film doing this. They one thing that's interesting is they kill a black bear sal and kill some cubs, but then butcher the butcher the sal for meat and haul off the meat, but then later decided to come back and get the cups. These guys get hit with some heavy duty fines ah dollar fine, jail time, um, and then they lose a ton of stuff right down to boats, oh, trailers, guns, all kinds of stuff in this I'm looking at this, this publication called the Hill, and this is where this thing starts to make it scrapy. So these guys get humongous fine and this thing confuses this rule that we've talked about a ton of times, which everybody keeps reporting in the most irresponsible way possible. Where in Alaska, there was recently under the Obama administration, they put some some game management practice restrictions on refuge lands in Alaska. So you're talking like of the total land mass of Alaska is in the refuge system. And the federal government came in and had some federal overlays of management practices that could not be used by the state on refuge land. And it had to do it has to do with like bear baiting, um with den digging, digging black bears out of den with artificial light, like they banned it. Where the state couldn't decide to use management practices on refuge land. Meanwhile, the state is able to do whatever management practices they desire on the other eight seven percent of the state and in most cases do not allow these managements. They don't allow these management practices. So this is a funny example where here's a guy hunting, not on a refuge He kills the baron's den, goes to jail, gets a massive fine, loses all of his equipment, loses his boat, loses his guns, can't hunt anymore, right, not on a refuge land. It's in a place where the state does not allow the killing of cubs. So this piece then reports it and they point out like, oh, they do so little research. They point out that, oh, um, it used to be uh. They try to make it illegal, but Alaska won't. It doesn't want to be illegal. It's like, no, not exactly right. This is Alaska deciding that this place that's not legal and then prosecuting the piss out of a guy who breaks the rule. But you keep seeing this narrative pushed in the news that somehow Alaska wants to just gloves off, dig every bear in the state out of its then and kill it, and people will not no one, no one will report this responsibly and explaining what it is that they're talking about. They keep making a big deal about shooting, like, oh, we can shoot cariboo out of boats. That happens in one game management unit on the North Slope where people have traditionally intercepted migrating herds of carib who as they swim across big rivers. So the whole state you can't. There's a place that you can where they feel that it's judicious uh and and conforms of their management policies to do it there. But no, like, no one will report this properly makes the headline. There's a lot of details around that case too. Then that those guys got one a thirty day There was some jail time involved. It was thirty day sentence, but it was commuted. Maybe the sons was commuted and the fathers was to be carried out, I believe because the kid was only it was I think seventeen would have happened. But the father also falsified who killed what and lied and false fied some documents and did some things that were somehow during this exchange, Dad uh wanted to make make it so he had shot the bear. Not yeah, not the kids. It was Dad's tag that ended up on the south. Oh really, and they've got game cash. You said, they've got game camera footage of of the You know, it's a little bit like a little bit too late speaking of the fine thing is that's good? The kid also part of his sentence, which is like community service, suspended jail time, fines, they also sentenced him to take hunter safety courts two years two years no hunt, two years no hunt for that. No, it's good. Ah, what do you what do you do? I mean, I just feel like these folks have been living underneath the rock somewhere. It's like, yeah, I mean they're obviously they came back two days two days later to try to clean it up. They obviously knew what was going on. So throw the book, Adam, I say, yeah, that's not not not cool. Bro Um, do you want me to tell him about the Pennsylvania guy that might get a couple of fines for not poaching but something, Yeah, this is something we should talk about me. I wanted to talk about this. Yeah, this is a crazy story. Yeah, this felt. I gets a call from his buddies buddy who must live on or he's near lake, and he says, hey, man, a bunch of deer fell through the ice struggling. So he shows up on the scene. Some of the deer have gotten out, but there's a small box. It's a spike of work, and yeah, he's still stuck in the wall. So there's already already some rescuers, their fire department, I think, and they get the buck out, and I think it's a story when there was already some management, um, wildlife management folks. They're on the scene and um the guy volunteers to take the buck home and try to warm it up. Nobody says no, so he's like so they're like yeah, because the box like is not moving right, He's just laying there, barely breathing. So these figures, I'll stick him in the garage, throw some blankets on him and hopefully get is you know, temperature back up, and run out at the garage door. Well, uh, I think he's in the garage for thirty six hours or something and unfortunately dies. Well, then the Pennsylvania Game Commission comes around and says, you shouldn't have taken that deer. You can relocate wildlife, but it has to be from one wild area to another. You can't take it home and keep it alive. Now he's looking at find up to of dollars the deer died. Talk about that that's that's very hard to prove because look at where white tails live, like that could be as wild as that could do is garage. It could be just as wild as und I would disagree with the garage, as wild as anything. Maybe maybe he needed to be outside next to the driveway, next to the shrubs. And then I see what you're saying. The pictures, he's just a picture. It's like he's got laid out with a blanket and a Pillow's got a pillow. It's like laid out like a child laying there. It's like it's like a deer. So he didn't even I haven't liked it. I have a lot of question about diddy check. He's in the garage. The buck is laying on his side, his head's on a pillow, and he's like funked in with a blanket. He's trying to help. It's all boils down to your intention because they thought pettent it would calm it. Now, No, that's not gonna help. That's like not what he's after. Uh my buddy Ryan Laton one time was he pulled he fished two fawns, two fawn blacktails out of the ocean and pulled him up on his landing craft and one died. I think then you know when he got wrapped up in a space blanket and got it to shore and wrapped up in another blanket and got it warmed off, and event she ran off, so he'd be like breaking the law. But do you like he didn't bring home. Here's a whole different left turn. Would you do you eat it? At that point the deer dies in your garage with a pillow in the blanket, I think this guy probably doesn't eat it. Basically, yeah, I feel like it respect to the deer that you would eat it rather than just bury it. I can relate pretty closely to the story. I was out antelop hunting one day and found a white tail fawn that had been smoked by a truck and was laying in the middle of the road, very wounded. Um heavily king cussed, but it's its legs were not broken. And within a year of finding this year, I had found another fawn that was horribly hit by a car, alive, all legs broken, and I shot the deer put it out of its misery on the side of the road, and that was a horrible experience. Anyways, I find this other one and its legs are not broken. So I did with this Pennsylvania guy did I've loaded him up and I called f WP as I took it home and I said, I've just found this wounded baby deer. They said that cannot be in your possession. You need to uh go put it back you found it or quickly handed off to someone else. So I took care of it for a short period of time and handed it over to a wildlife sanctuary in Hamilton, Montana. And as far as I know that deer lived a happy, healthy life, why do you doubt it? Because I hear I've heard from people that like that they have a horrible time, uh deal with wounded wounded deer. This thing, this thing was heavily can cussed, like its head was just spinning around, lived happily ever after well, I was around the deer for upwards of a week and UH took it. Yeah, I love it. Not really interesting, Yeah I do. I yeah, especially after it was like this this Uh you know, I had like a second chance because a year prior I had uh yeah, put it, put down this poor little creature that I can't fix your broken legs. You know, this thing didn't have a chance. So I did. I finished off a very wounded deer on the side of the road, and it broke my heart. And then a year later I was like, maybe this one has a chance. Its legs are not broken. And so it made it through the first week and as far as I know, lived happily ever after in Hamilton, Montana at a wild life sanctuary. Did they name it No? I named it a little baby road rash because it was scraped up real bad. This is really I'm looking at you totally different to me now, man. I like what I'm seeing. I like what I'm seeing when I look at you. This is a related story, uh that the guy wrote in about the guy lives in Idaho and he runs into a guy who is from an out of stator from Ohio who's out wolf hunting and the guy's asking around. He says he's been hunting, has took us off, hasn't seen any wolves. This guy says, well, I'll keep my eyes. I won't let you know what I hear and what I see, and likewise, let me know if you are running any elk. Because he's hunting for elk. Oh guys from Missouri, not Ohio. So he goes out hunting elk. The local goes out hunting elk, gets into a bunch of wolves, calls a dude from Missouri. The dude tells him he man get out to this area. The guy goes out, sure enough, gets a wolf. So he's real happy with this local fella. Then he calls him and he's saying, you're not gonna believe this. This the Missouri guy in Idaho calling the local fellow. You're not gonna believe this. But we turned onto a bridge and there was a big bull standing on the bridge, and this bull jumped off the bridge and it right now is laying down on the rocks with a broken back. So come get it. Yeah, Well, a while later, the guy calls the wolf hunter calls the guy back, goes, I'm telling you, man, we just drove by again and now it's dead on the rocks. He says, it's a big bull and the guy, the local guy was like, were there from Missouri? Is probably a raghorn. What do they know about big bulls? With him and his body who still got a elk? Take drive over. It's a three fifty bulls laying dead under the bridge. And he said, we had a grueling twenty yard pack out. Yeah, tagged in the haul the home a little. I've seen a video of he said me. It was all good video of somebody driving their car across the bridge and some rut crazed white tail comes onto the bridge and it doesn't know where to go and it spills off the side and executes itself pretty promptly. When I was going to the University of Montana, I can't remember, it was five or seven mule deer got into the parking garage, spiraled their way up the ramps to the top of the parking garage, and then all bailed off and we're all laying dead in the pile below the parking garage, off the edge there. And I remember at the same around the same time, a mountain lion killed mule and stashed against the mechanical building, buried it against the cancer. It's like this big rock over this big rock over here, University Montana. You know, I think there's two students that have been thoroughly beaten by white tails on campus. Yeah. This one guy was walking back from a uh Grizzly basketball game on this A sports team called the Grizzlies could be the other thing that you can put together in picture Grizzly Bears playing basketball. Yes. Um. Then uh yeah, she came around the corner and uh, you know, dark corner of building there on campus, and started the white tail doe who had turned into the corner and didn't have anywhere to go, so she the dough turned around and proceeded to pummel this gal into a massive concussion. Yeah, it's too bad. She's still alive. Yes, as far as I know, so is the deer. What else you got you? I got one from this conversation. Let me ask you guys this, let me pull you guys on the pole. You is a poll that finds out how smart people are. So you're looking at a little button buck, speaking of box, and you're looking at a little button buck, and you see how he has like the raised hair where his antlers will be. Do bucks shed that little teensy disc or not? Oh, I'm gonna say, yeah, everybody's gonna be quiet now, I gotta. I'm not staining from this because I know I know the answer. I do not know the You know the answer, then you know that it's slightly inconclusive. I'm gonna say, like, maybe they don't do I'm gonna say, like they spit off a little scab, or just say maybe they don't because it becomes part of the base of the pedicle later on it So you're saying it throws off a little scaba, you're going middle ground. I don't want no. I'm saying that he's he's gonna shut a spineless I want to he's a soft man. He's a soft man with the deer phone. I can tell you hard man with a mountain lions. Yeah, I think I think they shed a little do not shed? I think you're probably right, But I'm not sure. We're talking about this because some guy was asking about it and Brody was digging into it. Like the pedicles which were begin growing at a couple of months of age, and buck fons provide the base from which the antler will grow. So the little small hair covered hair covered bumps are just a developing They're not antlers like the root. Infantile antlers are actual hardened antlers on a buck fawn have not. This birth is tricky. They're saying this is a research who was done in Virginia. They said in Virginia they have not been documented, meaning no buck. They don't know if any bucket Virginia that actually grew a hardened antler, of button buck that grew a hard and antler and dropped it. But it says that they have. They have been reported in other states that it would grow a little dency dency I was getting that little wetting. Yeah, they grow their first set antlers and they are approximately one year of age. So you're saying that's the development of the pedicle, is what you're seeing. But reported there, that's where it gets tricky. All that that All that means is some guys said, hey, man, I've seen it, said you said you knew the answer cow is that where you were like all this hardcore? No, how yeah, it is. It is my understanding that that is the development of the pedicle um. It does not shed um, and U if you know, some of those big bucks may just have extra entry two on everybody by having an over developed pedicle. I'm not saying that you can't. You don't measure the pedicle, man, No, just by looks yeah, look, might look yeah yeah, true, you're good, Jani got uh what do you gotta add there to that? Concluders even no, not even a general concluder. Oh, I can come up with one. Is it time for that yet? It's not you gotta go somewhere. No, it's Friday. Man. Just feeling I'm feeling like I like what I was set out to get done has been gotten done. Um, I got a good one. Charlie wrote in about and since we got Pete here, I think you can help us answer because I actually was dealing with this the other day and I was wishing I could call Pete and asking what I should do. But Charlie's I'm wondering how we keep our gear and clothes clean, especially from blood, and how do we keep them old or free? What tricks and tips do we have? Mostly I was wondering about how to get the blood out of my stone. Glacier pack packs are a big one because you bleach them. It ruins the stitching. Don't don't go bleaching your backpack. I don't use bleach. Yanni uses hydrogen broxid bad or good. I think that sounds a little aggressive. I need to aggress it. If you'd leave it on from water, rinsing it off pretty quick immediately, guy, spray brush, rinse, spray brush, rince until it's gone. I'm a soaker. I get my bathtub full of hot water and I just submerge everything for twenty four hours and then I come back with the dish brush and buff it off and then kind of repeat that cycle a handful of times. As far as keeping blood off your gear, if you don't have blood on your gear, you're not doing it right. And uh, if you don't smell bad, you're also not trying hard enough. So it's just the nature of of getting after it. But cleaning it up simple enough. I think you just I soak it and scrub it over and over with a light detergent. Yeah, Mark Kanyon. In the white tail world, we'll probably have a different answer for I think keeping the stuff away free, but I could up in the white set world, man, that's just a different in the West, it's a different thing. Seth had is a separate washing machine that you bought somewhere so that he only used a white tail. Outfits in the Midwest that have separate changing rooms, like separate clean rooms where you go in and as ionizers all, you know, mounted on the wall and you have a locker with and you put yourself in a zipper and it's got an ionizer to kill the scent. And you're not allowed to go in there after you've eaten. You're not. I mean, you go in there with your hunting clothes and that's it. No smoking cigarettes in that room. Nothing, And that's that's that's what they do, and that's not I've seen probably more extreme examples than that though. Um. The Yeti Panga bags, the there waterproof duffle is completely sealed. So I used to use that as a you know, when you're traveling no way or in or out, that's completely you know, non contammenta or uncontaminated whatever the word is. UM situation trying to do that when you can. Was the mug asking that question? Was he um was he coming like like was he talking about like older free for hunting purposes or older free for just home purposes, like he didn't want the stuff all smelly. Wasn't that much context in here, got it? Sorry, Yeah, you're that's I mean, that's a regional thing. Like in the Midwest and in the East, hardcore white tail hunters are for sure, there's Western bow hunters that that do, uh go to the same extremes. They might try not do the same things, they certainly go. I haven't invested a scent in order eliminating or order masking things specific to hunting in I mean since easy ten plus years. At this point, I still wash all my clothes at the like the scent free detergent all that. I gave up real hard on that. I grew up in Ohio hunting deers and drank that kool Aid and it was hardcore scent cover. Yeah, I love the cool Aid. But one time to Montana starting hunting milk, you can't. You were going to sweat, You're going to smell bad, and if you're not, you're not probably not getting on elk. So I quickly just completely abandoned just play the wind. Oh yeah, I think there's there's like room and we you know, we used to try. We used to have a lot of things. We even try, like having extra clothes. We would like hike in one set of clothes and keep an extra set of clothes and only use those clothes for when you're in like total hunt mode. Go down to the creek or a bottle of you know, we had baking soda in a spray bottle and getting creek water and putting it in there and spraying everything, Like none of that hurts. You're never be like, well, I would have got the bull if I hadn't been doing good sin control. Uh, none of it hurts, But it's hard to maintain. You want to get lazy, you want to it's just or you do a lot. And on the backcountry hunt, I'd say it's almost negligible. I think where you can do it and make it worthwhile because you have just the luxury of a truck or a trailer is on like a spot. It's something like that where you're hunting your every day. You're coming back to a camp where if you wanted to, you could have a separate change of clothes. The bulk of the white tail hunters or day hunt man like they're going from their house ye walking out to the stalking out to the tree standards you know from the lease or whatever. Then it seems doable. But why not be paranoia? Man? Why not? Un Plus, you're sitting your stationary in a tree and everything, all your scent and everything that, um, you're affecting the environment around you, and you basically sit there and watch your effect all day, like every time a deer comes and looks. I mean, that's your key in on those effects. Whereas when you're spotting, talking is the less of that intimacy. When I used to trap red fox, you had to be totally. You had to be more paranoid than than a paranoid bowl hunter? Can you talk about like all the equipment? It takes a lot. Last time we did this, Q and A did I dropped the one about shooting offhand and a buddy was watching his Uh, A guy was watching his buddy miss a bunch of box and he's like, wondering about shooting rests in the field. It's funny you mentioned that because I have one that's the same but probably different. You don't mean to read this one off And I'll tell you this than you do yours. And it was different or not? Him and his buddy have ongoing quote discussion. So I got it. That means an argument about siting and her rifles. His buddy thinks his body likes sighted his rifle shooting free hand because that's how he's hunting anyway, That's all I need to know. OK, So I'm going that's like saying I like to fully drunk. He's like, he sighted your rifle in a real life shooting situation, and the guy that wrote it and says that this has to be bullshit, Go ahead with yours. I agree with the guy right now, But what was your guy? Um? Dan rode in. So then a couple of weeks ago he had a buddy that missed big mule with your buck because he took an off hand shot at a hundred and seventy yards off hand, off hand, find a tree, bro and later they got back on the buck, and rather than taking the time to find a good rest, he tried another off hand shot and missed again. He tried to convince him to take the time to find a good rest before he shot, but he felt like the buck was going to get away. What are your thoughts on rifle, bipod shooting sticks and shooting off packs, the best shooting rest in the field, very different questions. I think you need to examine on how much getting away of the white tail buck did in that scenario, Which did it get away more in which scenarios at the very least in that situation. If you feel like this bucks about the crest of hill, or he's gonna do somewhere, he's gonna get away and find a tree and and lean against a tree or do something to to get more stable, don't just wheel swing your gun and blast one off like that's a little bit irresponsible. I never even paid attention to yardages. But man, I have not taken Oh, I have not taken a whole lot of cracks freehand, except for things that are just real clothes. Go to the range and just lay down, taking the rest hunting cottentails in my twenty two go to the range and lay down prone and shoot a shot, then then kneel and shoot a shot, and then stand up freehand and shoot shot and see what we're all. Three of those land guarantee you know you're gonna get further away from your target each town. Or I don't guarantee you, but I would guess your damn question. Oh yeah, man, hunter, senty five yards off hand is freaking super long, compelling, Like I don't even I think if most let's just say the people in this room off hand, a hundred sent yards with a with your big game hunting rifle. If you threw an elk out there and elk giant ass animal, I'd say that for us. I bet you we would just tee laying a bullet anywhere on that target you'd be at. You probably hit it three times out of tin. That's my guess. How far away was that at our Christmas party? How far away was that? That was a hundred yards? That was a hundred yards? That was And I think what was that? Yeah? How many people hit? Four? Five? I hit? Dude, I just close my eyes and I was like, I'll is feelings. Yeah, okay, so four of us hit that one. Yeah, there's a little go for squirrel steel silhouette at any other than us, there wasn't very many more. I don't know what that means. And that was out of thirty people people? That was it that bad? That's a very hard Also, Also it was in the dark for most people, like there were it was an orange painted target, but it was dark and you were standing in a little like porch area, so that makes a little bit tougher. I'd say, yeah, I was really antiochy stuff. Yeah. I was like, I don't want to I hate to admit this now, but I was surprised. Yeah. I got Mitch Hedberg's saying like he has a lot of acting experience. He says because when he was playing pool and he makes a shot, he always has to act like he's not surprised. So, um, I agree with was like, I got I was not feeling cocked. I was there early enough that I gotta shoot it when it's still light out. So I felt like maybe had a distinct advantage of probably helped, you know. When I squeeze the trigger, I was like, well, this isn't gonna work out, but yeah, um but yeah good. For as far as recommendations for good shooting rests, um, I always trying to get low as low as possible. Um. And if you don't have the time to get lower, if you don't have the you know, clear landscape underneath you to get low because there's brush or grass whatever, then uh, you know the next best thing would be on your butt. Using some shooting sticks or shooting sticks standing or yeah, the tree, like Ben said, I mean that's a everybody should know how to do that. You could easily make a two plus yard shot by leading your rifle into a tree. Um, if you get lucky, there's a cross branch and get you get a little crotch and then uh, I mean it's damn near like having a you know, tripod rest our body Tony Paul's kill. Uh. He teaches he's a sniper and struck in the Marine Corps and when doing like makeshift using makeshift rests like a rail tree stuff like that, he talks about you need to have either the push or the pole. Ah makes sense. Yeah, when you're sitting there with him shooting, it makes sense. But there's always a little bit of like there's like like even when you're going on a tree, you kind of like wedge it where you can get a little you can lean into it a little bit. You know what, do you explain that a little bit more? Because that's that's when he meant by the pool was he was having and this was when he was You can watch on the episode with Helen and Brittany in Wisconsin Doug's place, but when he was saying the pool, he was actually having having them hold onto the sling coming off of the fore end and then pulling that in towards their body, creating a little bit of tension exactly. That tension, you know, creates you to lock up together. Same thing like if you shoot off your butt, you put your elbows on the outsides of your knees and then kind of suck your arms in against those knees, and that creates that attention to or digging a toe in when you're laying prone and giving a little little push off the toe. Three points of contact. You guys, shooting off your knee works pretty damn good. You know, we've done a lot of and this is some people think this is a question but I don't think it's questionable. I've shot a number of big game things and otherwise over my buddy's shoulder. Oh yeah, yeah, we do it. I'm not recommending people do it, but I'm just telling you that something we've done successfully. I've never seen that before. Man. You just like, we we'll set up where you just they just bend over obviously put their hand on their ears, and you're like almost laying on them and then tap them and that means hold your breath and it's roight. I can't say I didn't run into an Africa one time like the trackers over there. Don't do that for dude, Yeah right right from the um, but you can that brings anohing. I am not a fan of like standing shooting sticks, particularly thinking about the ones they roll out in Africa like this. No, I've never used them there man there it almost seems like it's more unstable than shooting for you, and at some level it's weird, but I've never had luck with it. There's kind of an easy cooking one laid at me. Um, speaking of uneasy shooting, I don't know. Um alright. This is from the little Evan who's sing belt I'm sink felt from Sportsman's Lion. Oh yes, oh um Evan. This is rough a month late in response, but we got so. I'm smoking a whole venison backstrap tonight. I typically smoke it to a rare temp and then sear it in a cast iron with butter, which brings the finished temp to medium rare. Have you ever combined this with the suvie meaning what he wants to do is he wants to smoke it to get the smoke flavor, and then throw it in a bag and um drop it in the suvie to maintain the tamp until he's ready to sear it. He's wondering if if that would work and and be appropriate. I would think this would be like if you're in that Christmas situation and you're cooking for a bunch of folks and you got a bunch of things going on and you don't want to worry about overcooking something or serving something cold. And that is a huge reason that suvie it's so popular in the restaurant industry. What he's saying like, smoke it, suvit it. And then if the question is have I done it now and I can't picture smoking it and then having it be that just can't picture it. I think he just wants to maintain that tamp so it's not cold, right, So he's not gonna overcook it on the smoker. He's gonna bring it off, and then he wants to maintain it at it at that below medium rare camp and then when everything else is ready, he's gonna pop that thing out of the bag. When you in your scenario, could Uh, what I've done in the past is because I don't like to not let stuff rest. Sometimes it's always in a tinfoil or a luminou foil, but sometimes in a yeti hopper, so you can smoke it, or you smoke it, get it to you know, ten degrees or ten to fifteen degrees below where you want it. If you say you've got an hour or two, wrap it tinfoil, put it in your yett he zip it up tight, right because you know over that time that heat's gonna stay in there, it's gonna continue to cook it. And then when you get it to where you're going see it, then yeah, that's what I've done in the past. So just say just tell your your bros you're coming over Christmas, like, hey, look I want to I just need a cast starn skillet ready to see it when I get there. That way, it's crispy still, and you don't because a lot of times when you let it rest after you've seared it, it kind of takes away that crispy, crusty consistency that you get when you see it and then just serve it all those good carcinogens we like. So some people do see her and then drop it in the suit. You could do that too, but you definitely have all that moisture in the bag. And I think that was the way to go. But now I think it's like the reverses. Like when I first started messing with it, I thought that was cool, but now it's like definitely better because you just stew it. Yeah, you get you lose your out, you know, you know, you lose your outside cool Chris Well, that that's searing, that initial shock to you know what I'm saying, Yeah, oh no, yeah, like schemes, but that initial shock, that searing it on all sides, that starts the process of that meat going to another stage and breaking down the proteins you don't here and then put it somewhere that's gonna steam it. And then it gets soft again and you've got kind of a weird consistence. That's what a lot of the recipes are though, really, and then then you come back out and crisp R up again. It depends what you finished product is too. If you're like going to pick something that doesn't matter. Guy asked, can you freeze? Do your heart deliver? Heart freeze is as good as anything on the planet. I trim them, core him out, trim ahead of time, I do. I core him out, trim the fat off the upper you know, the fat part, trim the tallow off that, and freeze him. Is that a space time? What's the reason why do I trim it first? I don't know. Man, When I put my stuff freezer, I like it's I feel like I like to typically I've done all versions, but in my mind, what I'm typically trying to do is freeze ingredient recipe ready. Yeah, in a perfect world, you're freezing recipe ready stuff. So I'll take my heart court, wash it out court, trim the tallel off the top lip, then freeze it. It freezes for a million years. Yeah. A few day I was telling my kid, what was he telling me? He's telling me something. I said, Man, I bet you million bucks. He's like, oh, you got a million dollars. It's just it's just the thing we say, are you serious right now? Yeah? You don't want to take the back a million years. A few years liver man, I used to say, like, I used to freeze, and liver is not a good idea. I've never had any luck, no I know, but I used to like do it anyway, and he thought, and like all the water comes out and winds up being like rubbery and it just doesn't work. You just gotta eat it. Ron Layton freezes. Yeah. Run later. You freeze livers and given to me and I take the livers hole. But it's just I got you over. Oh man, that's wonderful. Run antelope liver in the freezer right now. Specifically for sausage though, So I got a sauceage dress bee where I'll I'll feed that liver into the grinder and mix everything up. Is I think it's a bad idea. What kind of sausage dress fees that liver works? No, But my buddy Jim makes liver worset that kicks ass. That's like the best breakfast meat on the planet. Not wild game liver. Yeah really yeah. The thing about liver Worst is, though, is that it's not that when you look at everything in liver Worst, it's like tem percent liver exactly. You're because you're eating a lot of milk and a lot of fat. It's it's flavoring. Dude. That was my old man sandwich dude. Riber liver Worst, sliced onion and mustard's gonna. Yeah, sometimes feel like going down and buy Like I don't like to buy meat stores. Man, I sometimes feel like going down to buying me big old liver worst. I'm making. We're traveling sometime, we should get a big thing of liver worst, Dude, we should. You should come to the Latvian hunting camp in Wisconsin. Um, the guys from Milwaukee show up. I don't know, probably twenty pounds of you singers liver worst and all sorts of other fine sausages and pork products from there. Man. And that's all we eat, as far as like sandwich is going into the field. It's just right Latvian rye bread, which is kind of not regular. Oh, I think it's twice as good better. No, it's not. I'm telling you. It's not what you consider right. It's more of a like a sour dough. Dude. You can knock someone out with that bread. The stuff that I bring around, it's a dense bread. Yes, it's like a kind of bread if you threw it to a duck. Duck better be a diver. That bread is gonna sink on lake man. No, for sure, it's a dense bread. But I could see man a liverworst. God, I'm dying. I'm making liverworst with that liver. You guys are gonna want some, sorry, but the lowest grade liver worst. It was like Oscar. They had like a yellow wrapper on it. It came in like a log with a yellow rapper. And my old man too, He would buy bread and not let other people eat his bread. So if you went into the kitchen, it was like the old man's bread and then the family's bread. You couldn't have his bread unless you asked him about it. Did he grow poor? Oh? Yeah? I recommend if you're listening, you're gonna go try something. Don't go into this regular grocery and buy the Oscar may or brown Schweigger or liver worst. You're not getting the same like going to a deli. Go to a Jewish deli and get the good ship because it's well worth it. Yeah, I hear you. I saw a new friend of mine who is uh. They're Jewish and they've always grown up going. Have I talked about this before? Tongue? I told the story before. Never one last one? You guys, good for one more one? Here's another one. There's a guy that wrote in he's all confused about the difference between party hunting, party hunting, and party applications. Yeah, there's kind of like two questions from two different people. But one of the guys demonstrated some level of like he's like, he's looking at a out of state hunting app and it's a party application, and he's like, dude, party hunting, that's no good. That's a great point. I have never thought two very different things, the semantics things. But he's right, like, why why not change the term, you know in the application sense party application? I filled out, why him? Why can't I shoot your miss? We all got start? Who want us to start with party hunting, which is where we're sharing tags? And party hunting is where there's five people at this table. Two of us have a tag, all five of us go hunting. Everybody's up to bed, everybody's not bad. Is that is that it's legal in some place. I don't know if that's necessarily legal that I've never done it that way. Where I've done it legally, all of us would have had tags, we'd all be out in the field hunting. Possibly five deer come by, I shoot all five, and you guys come over and tag them yes and no. That might be the case some places, but there are places where you think, like, that's what I'm saying, main moose tan. You can designate it's a party tag's part. You can designate, yeah, draw the tag, but you can designate other guys to hunt the same tag and you can all be out. I think you're supposed to be in like you're supposed to be in some definition of communication. But you draw it. You go like, I'm party hunt with you. You you're both hunt. But again, there's some sort of formal agreement or there's some sort of tag tag that's saying that this is the deal. It's not just like, oh, I'm out here without a hunting license or a tag at all. Happened? You know, the illegal party hunting and then there's the party hunting illegal senses of what I was trying to describe. And well, we grew up doing a lot of illegal party hunting. Okay, but here's the deal party hunting that what I just described is legal in Wisconsin as not not legal here, and we did it illegally in mission before I even knew that was illegal. But it would be that your group of guys I'll have buck tags. Someone gets a dough tag. It was in when I was growing up, it was like it was viewed as though, if you see a dough Bob's got a tag, which is not illegal, that's right, but you'd go yell for Bob and Bob would run over and that was an illegal thing. Didn't even know it was illegal. Now in Wisconsin explained again what you're saying is there And this is the last time I looked into it, and I believe they define it as like within communication where you can yell at the other hunter that might be tagging the deer. But if you're all licensed and a group of deer comes by, you can shoot more as long as someone in that group and that's within shouting distance of you can come over and tag that. You can't have a dude with you who has no tag. You could have with you, but he can't be carrying a rifle you got you got you? Yeah, he can't be actively hunting. He needs to be a licensed hunter. Now this brings up a thing we haven't got into party applications yet, but another thing I'm party hunting. Another question. The guy that I've been meaning to get to and never got to it him his buddy or hunting black bears. His body's got a black bart tag. He doesn't so Mug one, Um, Mug one has a black bertag. Mug two does not have a black bertag. Mugg one but they're hunting deer, okay, Mug one clouch gets a shot at bicker. Mug two runs up, the black bear is running off his body. Gotta hit. Mug one, gotta hit. But it wasn't a mortal wound. Mug two kills it. That's against the law. It's a strange one, and it's one where you get put into like civil law versus moral law. And I've been in that situation in the past and where you're like, well, however things played out, you're gonna have like a you're gonna have an unre wounded yet unrecovered animal um. And I've been in that situation, and it does It puts you in a It puts you in a little bit of a bind. I think that the game Morden is probably gonna look at and be like, sorry, man, you killed it. Yeah, And unfortunately, there's just there's too much room for interpretation and too much room for taking it. You know, and cheating that rule if it's not you know, done that way, because because guys would just walk around killing animals for planets all the time because they're fighting. What we're talking that that rules fighting. What we're talking about, the two guys walking around, one guy shoot you like, come ever, you're real quick. Yeah, So the gray areas what you want to try to eliminate. Yeah, like the scenario like he has and I take at face value what he's saying. It's just that, um, it was like it was look like it was gonna get away, and he didn't want it to get away, but he went And so yeah, I mean, you definitely broke a law because I know what state has occurred to you broke a law. Maybe just throwing out a hypothetical. I don't know, um party applications. Who wants to take that one? I can talk about it a little bit about you want to go hunting, maybe with your family or your friends, and you're like, I'd rather draw this tag with you or not at all. That's a good way to put it. So I've got I like taking some of my family members hunting who maybe are not going to go hunting on their own. So we apply as a party, and it's like, hey, like we're all we're all gonna get it, or none of us are going to get It's not like you're gonna just talk with this tag and nobody's gonna be able to go go on this hunt with you. So I think it's a way to ensure that your core group of fellow sportsman or family that you're hunting with will all all get the permit and you can do it as a group. This guy was asking was it a good idea or not? And that's like, that's not really answerable because it just depends on how bad you want to go. I think it was not a way to do it. Be like, if your eyeballing, like some hunt you want to do, and and you'd make a deal, You're like, you could do a party app and then you both get the goal on equal footing and goalth got tag, but there's less of a chance that someone's gonna have a tag. Or you make a deal and be like, let's both put in single, but let's sign a treaty right now, sign an agreement that if one of us draws, we both go on the trip. But if you don't hang out with that kind of person. Then it makes sense that that did you all put in as a group, and then you all either go and everyone's gone whole fully loaded, or everyone stays at home. It's party applications somehow there's a question does the well doesn't would it prevent in some way party hunting? Like I'm just thinking through this a little bit. If everybody has a tag, then you don't have to share it that comtely unrelated, man, I know, I know, but there's a there's a there could be a corresponding thing there. If everybody has a tag, you don't have to worry about That's right. You're trying to tie in party hunting, party apple. I was trying to be slick and I was very That's why I was asking as a question because I was pretty sure. There's also strategic play where if I have ten ELK points and you have zero, and we apply as a party, I kind of pull I pull you up a little bit so I increase your odds. Depends on the state, and you can apply as a non resident. You could apply with a resident on a party application. Um good, But Lisa stated, I've done that in in Colorado. If you do that you're both in the nonresident the nonresident, So the residents getting dinged time, it can be it can handicap you. But I've heard of a very go ahead. Oh. I just I think that there are so many people. Um, if we're being honest with ourselves, there's a lot of people that ultimately enjoy the planning and the Google Earth thing and lead up two the hunt, maybe even more than the hunting the adventure themselves. Where Um, these party applications are a big deal because they feel like they're they're in the game. They got something to go with some you know, something to plan towards or daydream about at work or whatever. So um, I think that's that's a big benefit to these party applications. Have you ever party party applied? Yes? I have party applications out right now. I have one out. I didn't get invited about that. Well, it's being my bro because he's an Alaska resident. So we partied up on a couple of things. Nice that sheep, I imagine partied up on some stuff. Sweet. Um what else about that party hunt? That kind of covers the party apps, parties, party party and it's a good way. I mean, it's just a It's a good way for folks to plan, particularly if you're planning, um for an out of state hunt, then you kind of know, like, yep, this is where we want to go, and you can budget both time and montarily for how you're going to approach that hunt. Yeah, I like that system. Here's here's one last question ready our rabbits safety eat. Yes, yes, thanks for joining us. I have a concluder. Oh let me you came up at one. Speaking of parties, Oh, I like a good time. There are some shows coming out under the hood shows and some live podcasts that have tickets still available. They are a Under the Hood in Salt Lake City on February eight, and Under the Hood in Cleveland, Ohio on February and Under the Hood in Houston, Tajas February, and then live podcasts in Dallas on the February and in Seattle on the fourteenth of March. So half of our shoulds are sold out. Those are the five that still have a bunch of tickets. About Reno. Um, that's right, Reno, just because I'm gonna be there. Yeah, And and the date on that one standing try you're going to Sheetday. I believe you guys are doing your live podcast on Friday, February eighty Seventh's day. I've got a calendar. I've got a calendar right here. It's it's in the afternoon. Just one. It's a tough one for something we just added the great Remy warrant. Remy will be there. It's a tough one because it's a um early afternoon show. Um, that's all right, you can start drinking early that day. Yeah, man, quit word, yeah, don't quit, just take a break. Yeah, that's funny. It is on the seventh on Thursday. Good job, ye jan what do they call you down to Mexico? I can't remember, man. Yeah. Most of the time they make a funny. It's like a jew down for the j I'll be like, no, it's just like Yamo, Like when you say your name double L and they're like, yeah, Jonnas, don't tell me how to say your name. Boy, you're in my phone with a Y. Yanni does that on his emails, so he writes right fanetical spelling, writes Janis and then he puts in parentheses and on his Instagram it's like that too. I feel like it is. Yeah, it's Jannis. No that's my dad. No, I don't think. Maybe it is, but I feel like you're I feel like the name is Janice and the handle is Janis Johnny's senior Janis Ni dude, I'm always just Steve Man. My dad calls you Steve for Nelly, and he calls you Janice Pellis. He's a proper redneck. I don't see any wise, but I guess my has always your dad. Cal got any concluders, Oh that was your concluier. That was a good one. Live show dates coming up, man, get your tickets. Go to the me eater dot com um and the tab is the events and events events and check it out. UM also got some speaking events coming up and those are there as well. The places wrong be giving a give keynotes and whatnot, so you can see those there. And Pheasant Peasant Fast and Shauanburg, Illinois, which someone told me he's kind of like Chicago. It's a bit different than Chicago, but close very similar. There's a yeah, there's a big radius of suburbs. There got one coming up in Lander, Wyoming at the UM Newly fanatics got, uh, you're going to Harrisburg. Nope, Nope, I got one coming up in Yeah, concluder gall that's where we were. Oh yeah, boy, get a solid ress, go by a bypod. I mean, if you're not touching that triggered knowing that you were going to kill something, then you should not be touching that trigger. Speaking of bipods and uh citing in because it fella city siting in off hand, I say too, if you're gonna use a bipod, definitely site in using that bipod because I know that my rifles have a much different point of impact if I'm shooting off of a sandbag on a bench and that bipod off of a bench. And even though a lot of guys will say don't shoot the bipod off a concrete bench because that concrete bench is so stiff compared if you just said it on the ground that there's there's a difference point of impact. So yeah, I mean I was real world situations site in the rifle, like locked into a lead sled. And maybe maybe this is wrong, but I have always treated my guns is sighted in locked into a lead sled, take every variable out of it, the gun is zero, and then any imperfection after that from shooting off of a bipod or shooting freehand is your fault. Not not so much the guns. Oh, I think it needs to be adjusted to how you hold that rifle though too. There's gonna be like, I totally agree like you, you sound the mechanics of everything. The gun is bedded properly, the scopes mounted properly. Um. You could even shoot your groups off there and figure out your your loads um bullets bullet and grain grain to grain um. And if you want to go through that and proof all of that and then adding the variable of the human component, um, then you will would still more than likely need to make some adjustments to you know, your particular cheek weld. H. Yeah. I always like to just determine that the scope is listening to me when I make adjustments, and like when it's one of Lea's let you know, when you're they're human air involved, when you're you know, sighting a gun in so you're not always sure, but I always like to make sure if I move it two inches down to two inches right, that it does exactly that. I feel like that's a good thing to know a new rifle. I mean, I'll tell you I don't do this. I throw her, throw her down on top of my act pack a lot of times, down on some chunk of state wond or something, and make sure she's still still hitting taped up. Talk about uh, cycling through the tracking on your scope? Oh really zero to check, you know, to check your scope like zero and then dial up m A, then dial back twenty m and make sure it lands back where it's supposed to it for a walk. That's particularly if you're using the scope where you're manually dialing before your shots. And what happens if if you don't feel like it's coming back to where it's you got a problem? Yeah, you like you got a two yards zero and you dial up for let's say you're messing around and you're trying to press your bodies out. You shoot rock six hundred yards away and you dial up six or seven and then you dial back. You should do that at the range and when you dial back, like, is that where you're at? Because you might you could you know, some skulls may have a problem. They don't track back to where they're supposed to. Just something to keep in mind. But I started using like the the b DC radicals man, and it's not like, yeah, take take one more thing out. Yeah, like I used to, I flirted with messing around dialing. I just like to count hash marks. Yeah, it's a lot. It's just like for me. It depends what kind of guy you are and how your brain works and stuff. But my brain is the kind of brain that does better when everybody's locked in. I'm counting hash marks. Are you super solid on your hash marks? Like yeah, yeah, do you ever print something mountain tape it to your stock or yeah? I print fifty yard increments two yards zero, and I take a little thing that's two two fifty three, three fifty four, fifty five fifty six, and I'll put it on there. I'll put high ones on there because you never know the situation where you got something getting away from me that you you wounded or whatever. And then I and then I just have plus and I round them off. I don't have like, you know, three point nine seven. It's like a round him four on where I want them. And that's when you used to dial. You don't have that if you're reading your hash marks. I use it for my hash marks. Even though they're correlated, they're they're like you can correlate them for like most like magnum rifles. Right, if you know you have a two yards zero, then you know that the hashtards are roughly right. But no, I I write it out, just run that into blistic calculator every time. I'm just print out a new new paper for everything. I'm sorry, I'm confused. If you're you're writing out what each hash mark equals. No, I'm writing out my drop. Okay, so I have like whatever, Like I understand that, but then how do you how does that work when you look at your hash marks? Well, if I know I'm if I know I need to If if I know I need to do four, then I count down to hash marks and hold four. If it's five, I got to count down to hash marks and split the difference between four and six. The printed out things just yeah, no four m o A what ever? If you have if you have if you have a like a stat what do you call like a stacked radical right within their two m a a increments. If I look and I'm like, oh, this shot, I'm going to be four m o A low, then I go down and go to the fourth the fourth, So you're joggling that and knowing what the hash mark yardage is or do you not do that? No? I just go by I know what the how I know that, like the minute of angle drop. I'm trying to compensate for for it by using my because like the way I'll do on the BDC is I'll have my little chart printed out where it says the second hash is three two, the third hash is spot on. That's that's what I was on your thing. Yeah, yeah, then you take that to your stocks before you shoot. You like, oh, scope, I know what you're saying. That's another way. I think that's that's a good way of achieve in the same thing. Either way. Did you like that better than how I do it? There's less math at to do in my head in the moment. And there's something about that turret though I've been hunting with one lately. Rosky they have a PBC I believe it is. It's a bliss. So you send them off all your info, you send them off your bullet, you send them off fps, you send them off your elevation everything, and they send you back a customed turret for your load. Yeah, Vortex does that. You pop it on and it's it's and almost it's like if you have a rifle you're only going to use around home, and you're died in with scope and you're super confident, pop that thing on. You never have to change it and it's always a good Yeah. I had some of those. I liked them, but it was like, it's hard for traveling hunters, you know, because you're changing elevations all the time, you're changing you know a lot of the variables. It's hard when you always have to mess around. You always mess around with different rifles and different loads. If you have one rifle for a specific purpose of specific place, is super easy to do. But the reason that Krooke like, I see your system. It's fine, it would work the same way, but now and then you're splitting the difference. You know you're doing. You have two m o A hash marks and you're working with odd numbers, but still be the same thing. I can see. I can see either way. I think it's six is short for six and a half. SI made that up. I don't have any concluding thoughts personally, Pete Ah, not not much. We've got a lot of snow and I hope we have a good weekend. A hunt in ahead of us. Uh segue off of the live shows you all got coming up and sheep show here in Reno and early February. If you are going to sheep show, certainly go see the live Meat Eater podcast. And also, you guys canna have a booth? Yeah? Absolutely? Can people come buy a meet you? Fit you in the backback. I don't know if you want to meet me or not. But have you got a girlfriend right now? Uh? You know it's a loose term, but I'm trying to think of women should go and try to meet Pete? I guess, I guess that's the topic. No, I do not have I let me finish my concluded. My concluder was, if you're go on a sheep show, join the Lesson one Club. If you've never killed a sheep, if you have never killed a mountain goat, joined the Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance has newly founded Billy Goat Society. Remember when your first Mountain Goat hunt from rm g A or when your first sheep hunt from the Wild Sheep Foundation, do you guys be present for the rm g A makes a little more fun? If you what have you killed nanny? Yeah, you're out, You're out. Can't join. You had your chances that called the Billy Goat Society. But yes, we have determined if you have killed any mountain goat, billy nanny kid, you are out. It's correct. Yeah, if you want to be just a good conservation minded fellow or gal and uh, you know, not be burdened with wondering if you're gonna win a hunt or not. I'd just say give him some money. And those folks like myself that are already in the drawing, well, thank you for it. There you go. Alright, alright, alright, alright, thank you for joining

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